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Budget CA S13 Track Car - Upgrades time...

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Here's the current build sheet.


1989 CA18DET 5spd

146ks , standard bottom end fresh headgasket/studs/etc

GT2560/T28 BB on 17psi - 198rwkw - creeps to 18psi for at peak torque. (Current dyno sheet in this post. http://www.nissansil...dpost&p=6801669)

Greddy FMIC

DIY Brake ducts

Pod Filter

Drift Catch Can and Crankcase evac kit.

Turbo Tech Boost Tap

R33 BOV - plumbed back.

Adjustable Wastegate Actuator

Grex Oil Filter Relocation Kit

BTR Oil Cooler Thermostat

JJR Oil Cooler

Heat Shield and Cold Air Intake

Alloy Radiator

S14/S15 Front Calipers

RDA Ventilated and Slotted Front Rotors

RDA Slotted Rear Rotors

QFM A1RM Pads all round

R32 GT-R Master Cylinder

R33 Brake Booster

S15 Power Steering Rack and Tie Rods and new Super Pro Rack bushes

C-West Twin Blade Adustable rear spoiler

Alloy Boot mounts for the spoiler and brackets inside the boot to add support

BC BR Coilovers (Height, Damper and Camber Adjustment)

Front Strut Brace

ISC Rear Camber Arms

GKTech Rear Toe Arms.

3" Turbo Back Exhaust with de-cat

Dry Cell Mounted in Boot with Battery Isolater/Kill Switch cable up front + remote pull.

Aftermarket Steering Wheel

D1 Quick Release Hub

Momo Gear Knob

Momo Pedals

Auto Guage Smoked Water Temp, Oil Temp and Oil Pressure Guages (Oil Temp has warning buzzer and peak recall).

Apexi SAFC V2

Apexi SITC

AEM Wideband Air Fuel Sensor and Gauge

Custom Fascia for Gauges and SAFC

A Pillar Boost Guage

Blitz Turbo Timer with Boost Guage and Lap Timer

Velo Podium FRP Race Seat

Velo Magnum 4pt Harness

Velo Alloy Adjustable Seat Mounts

Custom Seat Frame, lowered for roof clearance.

Pro Fab Half Cage

17x8 and 17x9 Volk(Rays) Emu Racing Rims. Federal RS-R 235s

R32 GT-R Grill

Custom Semi Solid Engine Mounts.

CA18DET Exhaust Cam and Adjustable Cam Gears

Xtreme HD Organic Clutch, rebuilt master and slave.

DIY Front Splitter

Air Con Completely removed

Sound deadener removed

Roof lining and most trim pieces removed (Dash, centre console, and door cards remain)

Surge Tank Seteup - 2L Tank, Walbro 400lph lift pump, Walbro 255lph main pump. Aeroflow fittings and hose.

R32 Front LCA's with Roll Centre Adjusters.


Parts about to be fitted.

High misalignment tie rod ends.

S14 Subframe

S14 Subframe.

Solid diff bushes.

Subframe reinforcement plates.

Braided brake lines.

Solid steering rack spacer.

R33 Rear calipers.



Original Story.


Bought the car a bit over 3yrs ago as I knew it was time to get a second "play" car, something I could expand my mechanical skills on and that would spend most of its drive time on the track as I was sick of dealing with cops/fines/defects etc. I will say straight out, I like to keep things cheap and I'm no mechanic so don't be surprised if you see some things that looked terrible or are wrong, it's been a learning experience :)


It was a fairly tidy unit, 2 owners, full service history, pretty clean and straight, through it had obviously had a minor front end prang at some point. At that stage it had some plain 5 spokes, a full hektik spec doof doof stereo, a boost gauge, front mount, full exhaust, still using the T25 on 10psi, after market wheel (flimsy as heck), the cleanest unmarked/crack black dash I'd seen, stagea floor mats, immaculate seats, and seemed to pull pretty well for a CA on 10psi. Found out later it had previously been tuned. So it would've been making about 140-150rwkw at that stage.


Picked it up in Mornington and made the 4-5hr drive home to Albury/Wodonga, averaging about 10L per hundred k's, again I was surprised.t I'd come from an R33 GTsT, and an R33 GT-R V-Spec, neither of which were good on fuel. A few of my mates were SR fans, but I was attracted to the CA for its history of being a tough little nugget and cheap to modify and repair (as I'd be doing the work myself). My goal back then was to get the car into the 30s at Winton without spending a bomb.


Back then it looked like this.


Picture 001.jpgPicture 004.jpgPicture 011.jpg


A mate and I got a deal on some BC Coilovers and installed those, I only lowered mine a bit as I knew I'd need clearance for bigger rubber and that going to low would upset the roll centres.


We chucked the shocks in and it looked better and was a lot stiffer with the 8/6kg springs.


Picture 057.jpgPicture 058.jpg


We decided it'd be a good idea to do a drift day then and see how the car handled being pushed a bit harder.


We headed to Winton and I, a drift virgin, was welcomed with a half wet half dry day to try my hand at some slidey slidey. I only had the 215 Wan Li tyres it came with but I was pretty confident the car didn't have enough power to punish them, and given I still have them 3 years later (with a few chunks missing) I was right.


We gave the car a full service, threw on a few stickers I had to try and look the part, added some water and oil temp gauges for safety, and removed the front grill to give it a fighting chance of surviving.


Picture 135.jpg20thJune09135a.jpg20thJune09122a.jpg


A few things became obvious. I couldn't drift at all, the car was quite happy being hammered and didn't get hot, the steering wheel was dangerously flimsy, and the brakes were absolutely terrible.


I set about fixing the brakes issue and installed S14 calipers, RDA slotted and vented rotors up front, solid and vented out back, an R32 GT-R master cylinder which required a t-piece to suit my non abs car, QFM A1RM Pads, and better fluid. I also chucked on another second hand wheel which was much stronger.


Before and after.


Picture 102.jpgPicture 072.jpgPicture 149.jpgPicture 052.jpg


After getting the brakes sorted I signd up for a track day with SAU, as I'd always been a Skyline boy and still frequented the forums. I got the car aligned with some camber, tried to even up the rear toe which would not play ball, so obviously it's curb hopped or hit a gutter at some point, and headed to the track for my first timed day.


The 215 Wan Li's were atrocious and had no grip in the corners or under brakes. It was a great day anyway and I think I rattled off something in the low 50s, 1:52 rings a bell as a PB. Pretty damn sad. Thankfully it's come a little way since then.




The engine bay as it stands now.


engine bay.jpg


The car now.



Edited by ActionDan

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After my first timed track day I was pretty sure that timed laps was where I wanted to be.


Interestingly, the car suffered more heat wise at a track day than it had at the drift day with oil temps getting a bit too high for my liking so I decided that an oil cooler was a good idea. At the same time, a mate of mine was selling a GREX oil cooler relocator which seemed like a great idea as I'd intended on frequent oil changes as cheap insurance. I also opted to add a BTR oil cooler thermostat to get the oil up to temp quicker and avoid having overly cooled oil circulating for longer than is necessary.


Picture 046.jpgPicture 146.jpgPicture 145.jpg


The CA front bar has no decent venting so I bought some rice spec mesh and got busy with a marker and a jigsaw to feed the core and the CAI for the Pod that I'd add later, around this time I also added a heat shield for the pod and a catch can and slotted the inner guard on the driver side to allow the air to flow through the cooler and outof the inner arch like it does on the passenger side.




Picture 127.jpg




Picture 136.jpgPicture 135.jpg


And then...


Picture 139.jpg


Heatshield, CAI (PVC pipe), new Pod, and Catch Can V1 which I made a baffle for (this is now vented to Atmo in the current config but more on that later).


IMG_0824.JPGPicture 169.jpg


After that first track day I also noticed that the car was very light in the rear with the interior and spare wheel removed so I hunted around and found a cheap C-West twin blade adjustable wing. We had to make some alloy feet for it and initial testing with it bolted to the boot lid ended up with a dented boot as the force was being directly applied to the sheet metal.


We ended up making some brackets out of a hat section notched around the webbing. It definitely makes a difference to rear end stability, especially in the sweeper at Winton and under brakes.


Picture 168.jpgPicture 167.jpg9132_163405889837_3692802_n.jpg


I also knew that I was going to need some decent rubber but I knew that with no abs, decent brakes I was still learning, and little skill that it would be unwise to buy anything expensive. I grabbed some very second hand 235 RE55s from a tyre place in Melbourne and had those sent up for about $250. I then booked into an upcoming DECA event to try it all out - It was a very fun event but naturally it was not without issue.




I blew a cooler hose and had to limp the car into town to buy a ridiculously expensive replacement from Autobarn, the tyres were way too wide for the rims and were flexing like crazy making the car very unpredictable, it was still a bit too tail happy for my liking, AND I snapped the driver seat clean in half.


That should do it for Part 2, need to go get myself ready for the F1. More to come.

Edited by ActionDan

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I had a bit of a laundry list of things I wanted to change at that point so for a while I just plugged away at replacing things and attending track days when I could.


I removed the rear interior and cleared out the boot for a few KGs, ditched the complete aircon system, and removed all the stereo gear.


I relocated the battery to the boot and tried my hand at welding when I made the bracket, it's still holding strong and stopped me failing scrutineering for the loose battery up front. In this pic the kill switch is still in the boot, I later moved it up front and added a steel wire running up to the windscreen so that the switch can be pulled from outside the car to kill the engine/fuel pump in the event of an accident.




After removing the stereo gear I wanted to tidy up the centre console so I knocked up a fascia and installed that with my gauges.




As you can see I also added an SAFC and with 14psi the car made some OK power on the a free T25G from a mates SR.



Edited by ActionDan

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The seat had to be replaced after being snapped in two and I got lucky with a deal on a Velo from WA. We used the tabs from the old rails and made our own sturdier frame, it could be a bit lower but it's very strong.


I also realised that this point that getting in and out was bloody hard so I grabbed a quick release for the wheel which made life a lot easier.


I still say the seat is one the best mods I have made to the car as the chassis communication is fantastic.




At some point I found that the power steering was leaking, I think that was after another DECA. So I grabbed an S15 rack and got some new rack bushes. Learned how to do my own alignment too and it was pretty accurate surprisingly. To make this fit you use the S15 rack and Tie rods, but the S13 rack ends (the inner part).




A mate of mine donated a GT-R grill he had lying around so I gave that a clean up and a spray and cable tied it in like a good back yard racer.




Somewhere in there my missus surprised me for my birthday and paid for me to a do a John Bowe driver training day at Winton. I had Luke Youldon as my driver trainer and at that point I was reasonably happy with how the car was performing though the RE55s were getting very tired and the brake pads had been hammered on a number of occasions.


By that stage I'd also bought some more rims, which is hard to do for a 4 stud car. Ended up with some Volk Racing Emu's. 17x8 in the front and 17x9 in the rear. This stopped the sidewalls flexing considerably and with a new alignment the car was handling pretty well. I ended up with a PB of 1:44.2 for the day and Luke said he thought there was easy another 2 seconds in the car with more aggressive driving and fresh rubber. He also liked how balanced the car felt as I'd been playing with rear wing angle all day.


By then the car looked like this.



Edited by ActionDan

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By that stage I was pretty happy with how the car felt. Forgot to mention I'd added rear camber arms and found that I could not equalise the toe in the rear but I got it as close as possible and kept doing track days when time and money allowed (I was building a house during this period too).


I've also been fairly conservative at the track as I've often driven the car down on the old 5 spokes, changed to the 235s and tracked it, then changed back and driven home so it was important that I be able to make it home in one piece.


Not every one has been that lucky...




I squeezed the life out of the RE55s and my first set of pads and managed to just break into the 43s, something like 1:43.9 or so it was and then it was time for new rubber. I grabbed the RS-Rs for $640 for the whole set delivered and accepted that I probably would go slower but that it was better to have harder wearing new rubber and get in more track time.




After playing with the tyre pressures at a few more track days and fiddling with the rear spoiler, including removing it completely, I managed to shave a few tenths off and go 1:43.2 on the RS-Rs (my current PB) and with no rear spoiler which made the car much more unstable in the rear end. This to me shows that there's more time to be made up through increased confidence and skill than anything else right now.


I also found that I was getting a solid brake pedal occasionally after putting the new pads in and machining the rotors, could be a lot of different things but I opted to back yard spec it and have a go at some brake ducts. Despite the bends they work quite well, too well for the street and with those pads, so I'm assuming the brakes will now out last the tyres which is what I wanted. I also put a short feed directly into the PVC pipe for the CAI.




I also knew I was going to need more power to get anywhere near the 30s so I hunted around for a blown T28 as I wanted to try my hand at a bush bearing rebuild. I paid $100 delivered for one and was surprised when a working Ball Bearing T28 /GT2560 turned up instead. I grabbed some braided lines and decided that for the money I'd give it a go and see how long it lasted (as you can't DIY a BB rebuild).


At the same time I grabbed some RX-7 460cc injectors from the states for $90 delivered, cleaned and tested (WAY cheaper than the GT-R injectors everyone uses) and they drop in fairly well but I did have to use V6 commodore injector seals, a Z32, a Walbro 255lph intank and decided to have a go at one of those "Stage 3" re-map chips off eBay from the UK as CA tuning is much bigger there. The chip is now for sale for cheap as chips.


The chip worked fine and was in the car when I ran the PB but the car felt a bit sluggish and had a dead spot. During the process of swapping that chip in it became obvious that my existing chip had already been tuned as the ECU had the ZIFF socket already and it made better power with the T25G than most other CAs. The decision was made to go back to the existing chip (which felt to have better timing and showed less knock) and use the SAFC for any adjustments needed. Car made a bit over 180rwkw on 16psi so was pretty happy with that considering I tuned it. I've got access to a dyno so that's lucky.


IT was around this time I also moved the kill switch up front, installed my Wideband AFR gauge, and paint some IC piping to neaten it up, I also found a mint coilpack loom with coils for $50 locally so swapped that in so I no longer needed race tape on the plugs to hold them on :D


421976_10150727889729838_592610997_n.jpgIMG_0764.JPGIMG_0825.JPG182rwkw - Final Run.PNGIMG_0768.JPG

Edited by ActionDan

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This pretty much brings us to now.


I've got a CA18DET Exhaust Cam to drop in on the intake side and some adjustable gears that I'm hoping will see me creep closer to 190rwkw but more importantly bump up the midrange power and torque. I'll specifically be tuning it for midrange so the top end may or may not change that much. Threads on here show that usually the best midrange gets the best top-end as well but each car is different.




However... The old girl is starting to show some signs of fatigue.


At the last track day I had some issues with the catch filling quite badly and oil leaking from the back of the engine. Found I'd overtightened the rockers and compressed the half moon seal, so that was an easy fix.


As for the catch can I bought a leak down tester and borrowed a comp tester but was surprised when both results came back quite well, less than 20% leakage and 155-160 compression which isn't bad for a 23yr old engine.


I kept hunting around and eventually took a guess that as the catch can was plumbed back into the intake of the turbo that the bigger turbo + more boost was actually generating vacuum on one side of the baffle. Sure enough as soon as I disconnected it and plug an atmo filter on one side of the catch, it stopped filling the can.


Now the issue I have is whether or not I've done a head gasket.


I suspect it's been using a touch of water for a little while now but it's never blown any smoke beyond fuel, but it has now started puffing some white plumes at WOT in the upper revs. That and what looks to be oil in the coolant lead me to be believe I might have a small head gasket leak. As I'm half way through the cam swap I'll finish that first so the car is drivable then take it to a radiator place and have the system pressure tested and TK tested for carbon.


If it's not a head gasket then I suspect my $100 turbo is on the way out.




I've also got to re-seat the fuel pump on the hanger as I was getting some fuel surge last track day when the tank was 1/3 or less, which is annoying as carrying the extra weight hurts the little CA.


And lastly, the clutch pedal is not fully returning, stopping about an inch of the stopper. Could be a fatigued bracket, or could be a failing pressure plate. Will need to take a look.


Once those things are sorted I'd also like to get some rear toe arms and sort out the back end alignment properly, make some adjustments up front that will allow more camber and start work on a DIY splitter and undertray.


So I've got my hands full and the August Tampered day is looking like it wont happen =\

Edited by ActionDan

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Glad to see you've posted on here!


Great updates. Would be even better with some video.


Interested to see what the testing shows on the head and cooling system.

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Loving the write up man :) entertaining read, and always great learning from others experiences

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Got a little bit done on the weekend but didn't start taking pics until I'd already gotten into it a bit.


As mentioned before I have a CA18DET Exhaust Cam and some adjustable gears to put in before I can drive the car to have the head gasket properly tested.


After removing various bits and pieces it looked like this. The red gunk you see is sealant that was around the rocker gaskets as CAs are notorious for leaking from the rocker covers, mine doesn't but now that I've removed them it'll probably take another 2-3 goes before I get it properly sealed again.


I'd marked everything and taken photos of location marks etc before removing the belt.




Once you get both gears off and the back timing cover it'll look something like this.




I bought new genuine Cam seals for the process too and had a go on the intake side seeing how hard it would be to remove it without taking the number 1 cap off, as I wanted to replace the exhaust side seal without removing the cap if possible, but there was no way I could see to do it without damaging the alloy Cam cap. This is with the all the caps removed and the seal removed.




Pull the Cam and this is what you're left with.




I did a quick comparison between the old inlet Cam (left) and the replacement Exhaust Cam (right). Even with my old camera you can see the difference in the lobe height. 7.8 vs 8,5mm lift and 240 vs 248 duration.




I dropped some fresh oil into the Cam journals and lubed up the Cam itself then dropped it in and torqued it up, I noticed that at the recommended torque of 9-12Nm it doesn't feel like there's a heap of pressure on it, but it's deceiving as bolts initially require more force to crack as they've been in there so long. I really took my time torquing them up just to be sure, but for all I know I may have bodged it and this adventure could be short lived.


An issue I ran into was finding something big enough to knock the Cam seal in with. The biggest socket I had was 30 and I needed something like 46+ I managed to find some citronella candle things that were perfect and used a rubber mallet to knock the seal in. Downside being I shattered one candle completely and fractured a second. The third remained unharmed. After all that stuffing around it looked like this.




Next I bolted on the gears after setting them both to zero. I've got a rough idea on where they might be best set but I want clear figures on Cam set to zero, Cam set to X, Cam set to Y, etc so I can add it to the pool of knowledge on CA cam swaps with dyno backed figures.


One thing I did notice is that the gears are deceiving in that the outer ring has a mark on which you would assume is the aligning mark for the back timing plate but that outer ring mark doesn't line up with the locating pin on the Cam snout. On the factory gear the locating pin hole and the mark on the gear itself to line up with the backing plate mark are all in line. Due to the way the gears are made and marked though, this is not the case. I've double checked everything though and I'm confident the Cam is in the right spot, as mentioned I took photos before I started of everything which I heartily recommend. I've included a close up of one of the gears so you can see a how the locating pin hole doesn't line up with the outer cam gear mark, as the Cam only bolts on in one position I know it's in the same spot as it was before.


So after a bit more work it looked like this and I called it a night. Tonight or tomorrow I'll finish buttoning it all up and then book in to get the head gasket checked and go from there. I've also updated the first post to include some shots of my old cars, because I can.


Also, I'm selling my daily as I now have a work car. If you find a buyer, let me know and I'll sling you some cash as a referral bonus.





Edited by ActionDan

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Forgot to add, I found this on the weekend in a car park. It's a Mazda 3 undertray, worth over $150.


I'm gong to try and use it as an undertray for my car when I try and build a splitter down the track. Pretty happy with this as factory plastics are light and strong plus it already has a nice shape to it in relation to the sump.





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Well ran into a few small issues last night while putting everything back together.


- New gears foul on the bolts holding the back timing plate on. So had to swap those out for some different bolts, but the different bolts do not have spring washers and are a touch shorter in thread, I'm a bit nervous about them working loose but we'll see what happens..


- After being fairly careful with cam positioning during the disassembly and taking photos, putting the timing belt back on is proving time consuming, given the way the tensioner takes up slack on only one side. So you end up with the crank rotating forward a few degrees taking up slack on the exhaust side of the belt but the exhaust cam not going anywhere. I can only assume this would throw the timing out a bit so I may have to remove the bottom timing cover to ensure I have the right amount of cogs between the timing marks on the belt and that the dots are spot on. Annoying as I don't have the right size socket to remove the crank pulley, which I'd say is about 26-28mm, I've got up to 21 then a 30.


Ultimately I may just put it back together as is because if it's out it will be a minimal amount and it will be enough to drive the car and have the head gasket tested. If the gasket is gone I have to pull it all down again anyway.

Edited by ActionDan

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Well not a successful week all in all. Well, not entirely bad, birthday party was a ripper.


Missus has been sick, I've had a touch of it to and managed to strain my shoulder at the gym, so it wasn't until tonight I could get a look at the car again,


Got it all back together tonight but it won't start. It cranks merrily and has a few coughs but won't actually fire. I gave it some gas and it lumbered into life but it idled like shit and the alternator belt squealed like one too, so that's obviously too tight.


I'm assuming I've rooted the timing so I'll have to pull the front of it off again, including the lower cover and check all the marks and the belt notches between the teeth - sigh.


I "thought" I'd put it all back pretty sweetly but I guess not.


Stay tuned for more adventures of the DIY mechanic.

Edited by ActionDan

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hi5 maddog, man its pretty tricky to weave the brake ducts through there eh!


other cheap pads worth trying are 'lucas / trw' which are about $80bux an axle from suppliers in bris to give you an idea


also - take some onboard video so we can see how hard youre driving it !

Edited by scooby36

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Yeah I was initially worried about air flow but I tested it with a compressor blower and it flows plenty (at least while stationary) but who knows what happens at speed when there's pressure variances everywhere. I assume they work well as the oil cooler works well and it's fed from the same spot.


That's a good price for pads, are they on par with the QFM A1RMs in terms of temp rating? Those are only 120 and I got over 2000ks on the last set.


I don't have a cage or a cam mount and my driving is very unspectacular, with the exception of maybe that I can heel toe double clutch hard under brakes, but that means little when I don't have big enough balls to tackle other corners at super high speeds :) Budget car, budget driver...

Edited by ActionDan

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OK Started pulling it down last night to double check timing. Fan and Water Pump Pulley off, CAS off, Top Timing Cover off, but don't have the right socket for the crank pulley. Anyone know what size it is? I'm guessing 28 as the 26 is too small and the 30 is too large.

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looks good man, doesnt seem so budget anymore tho :P

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should be 27mm


Correct, I bought a socket on the way home last night.


looks good man, doesnt seem so budget anymore tho tongue.png


Cheers, all in all I could have bought a much faster car for much less money but we all know building it is a much more costly endevour but ultimately can be more rewarding. I knew it would cost me money but I wanted to learn. I've spent less than 15k so far including the car itself so it could be much worse when you consider what others have spent on there's, not to mention what I've saved in doing my own labour and what I've learned along the way.



So onto last nights efforts.


I got the crank pulley oft and had a good close look at all the marks. Intake was advanced 2 teeth, exhaust was retarded 2 teeth hence sfa compression, so much for thinking I had it right.



The problem I have no is setting the cams to the correct position as they're under pressure from the valve springs and want to rotate back and away from the proper marks, will be a two man job to hold them in place while I slip the belt on.


I also overlayed the old gear onto the new so I could put an aligning mark on the new gears for future reference. Interestingly I had little trouble removing the crank pulley, put the car into 5th and put the hand brake on, put some shoulder into it and cracked the nut. I climbed into the engine bay (radiator shroud removed) and was able to wiggle the pulley off with some gentle but firm motions.



Lower timing cover and pulley removed.




You can see the old cam gear has a dot on it that had been painted white, it's clearly forward of the indentation on the back timing cover, ignore the white mark on the timing cover, dunno what that's from.




Same goes the exhaust side, this is after I'd had an attempt at rotating it, it keeps moving back at least a tooth out due to valve spring pressure so I'm getting a mate to give me a hand, likely on the weekend.




Close but no cigar.



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Looks good man. Been following your progress threads for a while, must say the sil looks cleaner than I had imagined. Look forward to your results of the new gear.

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Cheers mate, put it down to poor quality photos. There's plenty of roughness to be seen close up as with most 23yr old cars, but it comes up OK with a wash and in pics :) It's certainly not the roughest Sil I've seen for the money, but the compromise was I ended up with a CA and not an SR. Sometimes I wish I'd gone an SR for the extra torque and easier power, but then I repair/replace something and it costs me SFA and I'm happy I bought a CA again.

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Still haven't finished this. Weekend was a write off, had a Rock themed costume party, drank way too much, chucked for the first time in years... good times.

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I love the obligatory monument hill shots haha, it's the first thing everyone does when they get a new car.


Excellent write up mate, S13 is looking good :)

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You're a local then? Yeah I'm not even sure why everyone does it - me included - there are so many better places to take pics but it's quick and easy and you can get there after washing the car without it getting too dirty so I guess that's part of the appeal.

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You're a local then? Yeah I'm not even sure why everyone does it - me included - there are so many better places to take pics but it's quick and easy and you can get there after washing the car without it getting too dirty so I guess that's part of the appeal.


Semi local, I'm down in Wang but I have a lot of friends who live up there. Yeah I don't see the appeal either haha, there are much nicer places.

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