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Apple will coast then decelerate... just like all the others before it.

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That has always been the argument for Apple products. It ended up being a pointless bragging right on the Mac, i guess we shall see if the same thing happens on mobile devices.

 

I suspect the market will give Apple the same answer that it did in the 90's when they tried the EXACT SAME approach:

"what good is performance when you can't do anything with it?"

 

Can't do anything with iOS? That's the understatement of the year. If pushing processors to the point of inefficiency is your thing then go for it, I'll take smoothness and reliability any day of the week.

 

You have to realise companies design these devices for the "typical" consumer.. Not for tech junkies that think they're entitled to get access to every part of the OS and think everything should be free.

 

Step one - connect your phone to your computer

Step two - view the contents of your phone in the file browser

Step three - drag and drop your desired music into the music folder of your phone

 

Can't do that?

You must be using an iPhone.....

 

In the 90's Macs were always faster than the PC, but in the end choice won out over efficiency.

Edited by Chappy

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Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about

 

Can't do anything with iOS? That's the understatement of the year. If pushing processors to the point of inefficiency is your thing then go for it, I'll take smoothness and reliability any day of the week.

 

What exactly is "pushing processors to the point of inefficiency"?

 

Technically the less work a CPU is doing the less efficient it is, since CPU's are generally designed to run at 100% capacity all the time - its not possible to "push" or "work" a cpu to a less efficient state.

 

If you're talking about the efficiency of the software running on the phone, such as the OS, you must not understand OS's very well, CPU time allocation is handled at the kernel and both Apple iOS and Android use unix based kernels, Apple = BSD, Android = Linux. Considering that Linux is open source and kernel development is a HUGE part of the community, I would actually put my money on the Linux kernel being more efficient than the BSD one.

 

You have to realise companies design these devices for the "typical" consumer.. Not for tech junkies that think they're entitled to get access to every part of the OS and think everything should be free.

 

 

Not all tech junkies want everything for free - but when you go to Google and type "unlock" it suggests "unlock iphone" first, with no Android results at all, so they are either trying to jailbreak their phone (get access to every part of the OS) or unlock their phone (a service they think should be free).

 

Trying to promote a product by bagging out other products is a typical Apple tactic, it shows a lack of technical knowledge and doesn't really make the product look good at all.

 

Far out mate, settle down a bit hey. I was more referring to the "hackability" of Android over iOS, as in "over clocking", isn't this what "tech junkies" like yourself enjoy doing with Android?

 

As for the unlock thing I'm pretty sure they're talking about a device being locked to a carrier and would be the main reason ppl try to jailbreak their device.

 

Oh and on a side note I still to this day haven't seen an Android Handset run as smooth as iOS & yes I've played with the Galaxy Note 2 with the latest OS.

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That has always been the argument for Apple products. It ended up being a pointless bragging right on the Mac, i guess we shall see if the same thing happens on mobile devices.

 

I suspect the market will give Apple the same answer that it did in the 90's when they tried the EXACT SAME approach:

"what good is performance when you can't do anything with it?"

 

Can't do anything with iOS? That's the understatement of the year. If pushing processors to the point of inefficiency is your thing then go for it, I'll take smoothness and reliability any day of the week.

 

You have to realise companies design these devices for the "typical" consumer.. Not for tech junkies that think they're entitled to get access to every part of the OS and think everything should be free.

 

Step one - connect your phone to your computer

Step two - view the contents of your phone in the file browser

Step three - drag and drop your desired music into the music folder of your phone

 

Can't do that?

You must be using an iPhone.....

 

In the 90's Macs were always faster than the PC, but in the end choice won out over efficiency.

 

Actually drag and drop is possible with iTunes, I know it's kinda dumb not to be able to plug it into any comp without it but that's how Apple does it and if you don't like it don't use it, you have a choice. Besides most of the music I listen to these days I stream anyway through various services, I have my full media library available via iCloud so the drag and drop is a non issue for me as I never really plug it into iTunes anymore. If I want to grab some random file that's not compatible with my iPhone I have a usb stick on a keychain and I can't really remember the last time I actually used it to be honest.

 

The file system is slowly becoming a thing of the past and cloud services will be/are the future so get on board.

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Actually drag and drop is possible with iTunes, I know it's kinda dumb not to be able to plug it into any comp without it but that's how Apple does it and if you don't like it don't use it, you have a choice.

 

I do have a choice, much like people had a choice last time they chose to ditch Apple and their restrictive ways. This is the point i was making.

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Is hardly restrictive.

 

You can drag and drop, or you can connect via wifi and simply sync the checked songs. I haven't connected my phone to my mac in months now and I can keep the music, apps, photos and videos synced between my pc and the phone. It goes through iTunes and it does it without issue. Then again I know how to use iTunes which form a few posts on this very forum seems to be a difficult task for some guys.

 

Drag and drop in the traditional sense poses the possibility of putting music in the wrong folder which may not be accessible to the user from the device, or not visible by the music app. Or deleting system files, or anything else you can do via explorer. I sure that a lot of base android builds also don't let the user interact with this shit either, until you root them.

 

I don't see the benefit of drag and drop on a mobile device. It sounds like you want a computer, not a smart phone.

 

 

You see taking variables out of the equation as a hindrance. In actuality it lends itself to efficiency. There is nothing wrong with having only "one way" to do anything, as long as that one way works as you'd intend it to.

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You do not need to root an android to access the music files, and you cannot delete system files if you have not rooted your phone, so both your points are moot.

 

Also the music app can find music located anywhere on your phone, you do not have to put it in a specific folder.

 

And i'm sure iTunes is all kinds of useful, anything to keep you using it. Try and live without it or look for an alternative however and you will be shit out of luck.

Apple is fine as long as you don't do anything they don't want you to do. As long as you accept that you don't truly own the device, all will be well.

 

I don't want a PC, i want a phone that lets me do what i want with it, without needing to use an invasive and entirely unnecessary piece of software just to satisfy Apples obsession with control over your life.

Edited by Chappy

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They produce the most looking polished device, but in terms of hardware innovation they are typically trailing. Just comparing them to Samsung, when a new Galaxy comes out it sets the standard when it comes to hardware, and several months latter Apple tends to catch up a little. If they want to remain competetive, they really should at least try to push ahead and not just catch up. Maybe lower the profit margins and try to put up a serious fight on the hardware front.

 

 

 

http://www.anandtech...one-5-review/11

 

go back a page to see general/CPU performance for browser based stuff.

 

nearly every single graph on that page has the iphone 5 and the 3rd gen ipad at the top.

 

on paper, android devices are very impressive, touting big numbers when it comes to CPU speed, cores and RAM. unfortunately numbers alone do not translate directly into better performance, or even a better experience.

 

maybe samsung should learn how to make efficient handsets that do more with less than just brute forcing with more cores and cycles (and still failing to beat it). to me,

 

The reason iOS is running faster on some of these benchmarks is because it runs directly on the phone, where as Android is handicapped as it runs through a Java virtual machine, which will be evident in some benchmarks. From a practical viewpoint this becomes less important as hardware improves, which is why when each new Galaxy comes out it becomes the new leader on all the benchmarks, then Apple gets some of the same hardware (i.e. they catch up) and leverage on the fact they aren't running through a virtual machine to get ahead on the benchmarks. There is also more to hardware that CPUs and GPUs. There are things like NFC, usb compatibility, quirky stuff like projector beams, etc. Then there are screens, phones like the Galaxy have a massive screen, and the market has shown this is what people want. I myself have a screen the size of the new iphone (I bought my phone a while ago) and I think it is too small. No matter how you look at it Apple trails with Hardware and they play catch up when the new iPhone gets released.

 

 

If you're talking about the efficiency of the software running on the phone, such as the OS, you must not understand OS's very well, CPU time allocation is handled at the kernel and both Apple iOS and Android use unix based kernels, Apple = BSD, Android = Linux. Considering that Linux is open source and kernel development is a HUGE part of the community, I would actually put my money on the Linux kernel being more efficient than the BSD one.

 

Apple doesn't equal BSD and Android does not equal Linux. Apple uses the freeBSD kernel and Android runs on top of a Linux based kernel. If you ran the Androids implentation of their Java virtual machine on the freeBSD kernel not too many people would even notice. Contrast this to a regular linux distribution, which tends to operate more tightly integrated with the Kernel and which you generally have more direct access to the Kernel and a GNU userland.

 

Now the kernel Apple uses is also open source it is just under a different licence. It is under the BSD licence, which essentially gives anyone ownership of the software under that licence. I.e. they can compile it directly as closed source and sell it as there own if they like. Where as Linux is under the GPL licence, and you can't do that. If you modify the Kernel and what do distribute it you must distribute it as open source. I am not sure it would be wise to put money on the Linux kernel being more efficient than the BSD one either. The freeBSD community is very big on stability, security and perfomance. There main market is the server market.

 

Actually drag and drop is possible with iTunes, I know it's kinda dumb not to be able to plug it into any comp without it but that's how Apple does it and if you don't like it don't use it, you have a choice. Besides most of the music I listen to these days I stream anyway through various services, I have my full media library available via iCloud so the drag and drop is a non issue for me as I never really plug it into iTunes anymore. If I want to grab some random file that's not compatible with my iPhone I have a usb stick on a keychain and I can't really remember the last time I actually used it to be honest.

 

The file system is slowly becoming a thing of the past and cloud services will be/are the future so get on board.

 

This is the whole point, it is dumb. It is taking away choice in an attempt to lock you into their ecosystem. You still actually need itunes installed on your computer. When my wife bought here iphone 4 (obviously some time ago) she couldn't actually install itunes on her Macbook because it was running Tiger OS. Apple no longer supported it and forced her to upgrade to the lattest version of OSX at the time to install itunes. If we had a Window's machine in the house then we could have used that, but we could not actually use Apples own operating system. They continually lock down there ecosystem in all kinds of stupid ways like it is a privilege that you can actually use it. This is incredible arrogance on their behalf. Apple has unfortunately introduced the locked down ecosystem. Nobody would have put up with on their, PC. Could you imagine buying a PC and not having administration rights to it, yet somehow they have brainwashed the masses that this is OK on a phone and now they are slowly making OS more and more locked down as well.

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You do not need to root an android to access the music files, and you cannot delete system files if you have not rooted your phone, so both your points are moot.

 

Also the music app can find music located anywhere on your phone, you do not have to put it in a specific folder.

 

And i'm sure iTunes is all kinds of useful, anything to keep you using it. Try and live without it or look for an alternative however and you will be shit out of luck.

Apple is fine as long as you don't do anything they don't want you to do. As long as you accept that you don't truly own the device, all will be well.

 

I don't want a PC, i want a phone that lets me do what i want with it, without needing to use an invasive and entirely unnecessary piece of software just to satisfy Apples obsession with control over your life.

 

How is it invasive? how is it 'locking you into the ecosystem?' I have exactly one paid-for song in itunes, and it was my own bands. everything else is ripped or downloaded as MP3, and it works fine. using itunes as a music player/library is no different to using winamp or fubar. the only difference is it connects to your devices and makes it simple to get your music onto them. you can click and drag individually if you like, or you can sync your library. OR, you can sync JUST the songs you want! that is actually more options than I imagine you have with android.

 

not only that itunes can manage your library and sort/rename your items, which for me was a god send (i had a folder full of files rather than folders for each artist). with the 'copy to library' option enabled you click and drag from your downloads folder into itunes, and it copies it to your music folder for you. smart playlists, app management, etc. its very broad in what it does and doesnt really exhibit any of the problems i see people on here commonly whinging about.

 

 

 

 

They produce the most looking polished device, but in terms of hardware innovation they are typically trailing. Just comparing them to Samsung, when a new Galaxy comes out it sets the standard when it comes to hardware, and several months latter Apple tends to catch up a little. If they want to remain competetive, they really should at least try to push ahead and not just catch up. Maybe lower the profit margins and try to put up a serious fight on the hardware front.

 

 

 

http://www.anandtech...one-5-review/11

 

go back a page to see general/CPU performance for browser based stuff.

 

nearly every single graph on that page has the iphone 5 and the 3rd gen ipad at the top.

 

on paper, android devices are very impressive, touting big numbers when it comes to CPU speed, cores and RAM. unfortunately numbers alone do not translate directly into better performance, or even a better experience.

 

maybe samsung should learn how to make efficient handsets that do more with less than just brute forcing with more cores and cycles (and still failing to beat it). to me,

 

The reason iOS is running faster on some of these benchmarks is because it runs directly on the phone, where as Android is handicapped as it runs through a Java virtual machine, which will be evident in some benchmarks. From a practical viewpoint this becomes less important as hardware improves, which is why when each new Galaxy comes out it becomes the new leader on all the benchmarks, then Apple gets some of the same hardware (i.e. they catch up) and leverage on the fact they aren't running through a virtual machine to get ahead on the benchmarks. There is also more to hardware that CPUs and GPUs. There are things like NFC, usb compatibility, quirky stuff like projector beams, etc. Then there are screens, phones like the Galaxy have a massive screen, and the market has shown this is what people want. I myself have a screen the size of the new iphone (I bought my phone a while ago) and I think it is too small. No matter how you look at it Apple trails with Hardware and they play catch up when the new iPhone gets released.

 

If you're talking about the efficiency of the software running on the phone, such as the OS, you must not understand OS's very well, CPU time allocation is handled at the kernel and both Apple iOS and Android use unix based kernels, Apple = BSD, Android = Linux. Considering that Linux is open source and kernel development is a HUGE part of the community, I would actually put my money on the Linux kernel being more efficient than the BSD one.

 

Apple doesn't equal BSD and Android does not equal Linux. Apple uses the freeBSD kernel and Android runs on top of a Linux based kernel. If you ran the Androids implentation of their Java virtual machine on the freeBSD kernel not too many people would even notice. Contrast this to a regular linux distribution, which tends to operate more tightly integrated with the Kernel and which you generally have more direct access to the Kernel and a GNU userland.

 

Now the kernel Apple uses is also open source it is just under a different licence. It is under the BSD licence, which essentially gives anyone ownership of the software under that licence. I.e. they can compile it directly as closed source and sell it as there own if they like. Where as Linux is under the GPL licence, and you can't do that. If you modify the Kernel and what do distribute it you must distribute it as open source. I am not sure it would be wise to put money on the Linux kernel being more efficient than the BSD one either. The freeBSD community is very big on stability, security and perfomance. There main market is the server market.

 

Actually drag and drop is possible with iTunes, I know it's kinda dumb not to be able to plug it into any comp without it but that's how Apple does it and if you don't like it don't use it, you have a choice. Besides most of the music I listen to these days I stream anyway through various services, I have my full media library available via iCloud so the drag and drop is a non issue for me as I never really plug it into iTunes anymore. If I want to grab some random file that's not compatible with my iPhone I have a usb stick on a keychain and I can't really remember the last time I actually used it to be honest.

 

The file system is slowly becoming a thing of the past and cloud services will be/are the future so get on board.

 

This is the whole point, it is dumb. It is taking away choice in an attempt to lock you into their ecosystem. You still actually need itunes installed on your computer. When my wife bought here iphone 4 (obviously some time ago) she couldn't actually install itunes on her Macbook because it was running Tiger OS. Apple no longer supported it and forced her to upgrade to the lattest version of OSX at the time to install itunes. If we had a Window's machine in the house then we could have used that, but we could not actually use Apples own operating system. They continually lock down there ecosystem in all kinds of stupid ways like it is a privilege that you can actually use it. This is incredible arrogance on their behalf. Apple has unfortunately introduced the locked down ecosystem. Nobody would have put up with on their, PC. Could you imagine buying a PC and not having administration rights to it, yet somehow they have brainwashed the masses that this is OK on a phone and now they are slowly making OS more and more locked down as well.

 

 

Apples last 3 processors have all been custom jobs, so I dont know why you think they are 'copying' anyone.

 

to know that android runs as a VM is just hilarious. why the f**k would you even bother?

 

 

 

 

and just to clarify for everyone ever, as of iOS 4.0 (nearly 3 years ago!) you can buy, set up and use an iphone, ipad, or ipod touch without once connecting it to your computeror itunes.

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Apples last 3 processors have all been custom jobs, so I dont know why you think they are 'copying' anyone.

 

They play catchup whether you like it or not. What has custom job got anything to do with it. They trail in terms of the specs of the hardware and then they catch up. And as already mentioned the CPU is not the only hardware feature they trail on.

to know that android runs as a VM is just hilarious. why the f**k would you even bother?

What do you mean it is hilarious. I have often mentioned on here I think it is a design flaw, but I don't see what is funny about it. When a new Galaxy comes out it still dominates on all the benchmarks. It just means on equal or near equal hardware iOS has a performance advantage.

 

and just to clarify for everyone ever, as of iOS 4.0 (nearly 3 years ago!) you can buy, set up and use an iphone, ipad, or ipod touch without once connecting it to your computeror itunes.

 

You still need itunes for a lot of what is now basic functionality. Or at least a lot of the apps you need to replace this basic functionality cost money, when really it should be built into the OS.

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If you're talking about the efficiency of the software running on the phone, such as the OS, you must not understand OS's very well, CPU time allocation is handled at the kernel and both Apple iOS and Android use unix based kernels, Apple = BSD, Android = Linux. Considering that Linux is open source and kernel development is a HUGE part of the community, I would actually put my money on the Linux kernel being more efficient than the BSD one.

 

Apple doesn't equal BSD and Android does not equal Linux. Apple uses the freeBSD kernel and Android runs on top of a Linux based kernel. If you ran the Androids implentation of their Java virtual machine on the freeBSD kernel not too many people would even notice. Contrast this to a regular linux distribution, which tends to operate more tightly integrated with the Kernel and which you generally have more direct access to the Kernel and a GNU userland.

 

Now the kernel Apple uses is also open source it is just under a different licence. It is under the BSD licence, which essentially gives anyone ownership of the software under that licence. I.e. they can compile it directly as closed source and sell it as there own if they like. Where as Linux is under the GPL licence, and you can't do that. If you modify the Kernel and what do distribute it you must distribute it as open source. I am not sure it would be wise to put money on the Linux kernel being more efficient than the BSD one either. The freeBSD community is very big on stability, security and perfomance. There main market is the server market.

 

I agree with most of what you said, except for "The freeBSD community is very big on stability, security and perfomance. There main market is the server market."

 

I've used NetBSD, OpenBSD and FreeBSD and all of them seemed to lack performance compared to the (properly setup) Linux systems I have used - security and stability I will admit BSD are pretty good there, but not with performance - thus why I believe it will be more efficient :)

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Apples last 3 processors have all been custom jobs, so I dont know why you think they are 'copying' anyone.

 

They play catchup whether you like it or not. What has custom job got anything to do with it. They trail in terms of the specs of the hardware and then they catch up. And as already mentioned the CPU is not the only hardware feature they trail on.

to know that android runs as a VM is just hilarious. why the f**k would you even bother?

What do you mean it is hilarious. I have often mentioned on here I think it is a design flaw, but I don't see what is funny about it. When a new Galaxy comes out it still dominates on all the benchmarks. It just means on equal or near equal hardware iOS has a performance advantage.

 

and just to clarify for everyone ever, as of iOS 4.0 (nearly 3 years ago!) you can buy, set up and use an iphone, ipad, or ipod touch without once connecting it to your computeror itunes.

 

 

 

You still need itunes for a lot of what is now basic functionality. Or at least a lot of the apps you need to replace this basic functionality cost money, when really it should be built into the OS.

 

No you dont.

 

contacts, calendar, camera, basic photo editing (crop, enhance, rotate) web access, email (which includes all office document compatibility + PDFs), music, podcasts, video, social networking (twitter and FB) weather and gaming. all this is fully operational out of the box with literally zero connection to a computer or itunes. so, please, tell me what 'basic' functionality a smartphone should have out of the box that the iphone doesnt have until you buy apps?

 

 

sure, you might not like that you have to pay for media through itunes and the app store (download straight to the phone), but i would love to see you get media and software onto ANY device without connecting it to ANY computer, or paying for it through legitimate channels.

 

 

as for the hardware 'trailing', go back and check the anandtech review. choice quote:

Swift appears to offer better power/performance efficiency than any other currently available ARM architecture. Its architecture, performance and power profile most closely resemble Qualcomm’s 28nm Krait/Snapdragon S4, although through hardware or software optimizations it appears to be able to come out slightly ahead

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so, please, tell me what 'basic' functionality a smartphone should have out of the box that the iphone doesnt have until you buy apps?

 

Maps / Navigation

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sure, you might not like that you have to pay for media through itunes and the app store (download straight to the phone), but i would love to see you get media and software onto ANY device without connecting it to ANY computer, or paying for it through legitimate channels.

 

 

I use Spotify, which is free for the basic version.

I also transfer songs from my tablets, computers, or friend's devices using wifi or beam.

Most transfers happen between mine and my partners phones, and no computer is needed there...

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I've used NetBSD, OpenBSD and FreeBSD and all of them seemed to lack performance compared to the (properly setup) Linux systems I have used - security and stability I will admit BSD are pretty good there, but not with performance - thus why I believe it will be more efficient :)

 

I would have thought a lot of the difference would come down do setup. I don't use BSD so I have to go by what I read. The BSD guys often claim that sometimes BSD can run Linux binaries quicker than Linux. The FreeBSD project has put a lot of effort into running more efficiently with parallel cores over the last few years. In a sense the Linux comunity was behind a bit at least pre systemd, and oddly enough systemd was actually inspired by the booting process in OSX. Mind you my laptop boot significantly faster than my wifes macbook pro, and it doesn't even run systemd. From what I have read people are getting 2.5 second boot times with systemd :)

 

Apples last 3 processors have all been custom jobs, so I dont know why you think they are 'copying' anyone.

 

They play catchup whether you like it or not. What has custom job got anything to do with it. They trail in terms of the specs of the hardware and then they catch up. And as already mentioned the CPU is not the only hardware feature they trail on.

to know that android runs as a VM is just hilarious. why the f**k would you even bother?

What do you mean it is hilarious. I have often mentioned on here I think it is a design flaw, but I don't see what is funny about it. When a new Galaxy comes out it still dominates on all the benchmarks. It just means on equal or near equal hardware iOS has a performance advantage.

 

and just to clarify for everyone ever, as of iOS 4.0 (nearly 3 years ago!) you can buy, set up and use an iphone, ipad, or ipod touch without once connecting it to your computeror itunes.

 

 

 

You still need itunes for a lot of what is now basic functionality. Or at least a lot of the apps you need to replace this basic functionality cost money, when really it should be built into the OS.

 

No you dont.

 

contacts, calendar, camera, basic photo editing (crop, enhance, rotate) web access, email (which includes all office document compatibility + PDFs), music, podcasts, video, social networking (twitter and FB) weather and gaming. all this is fully operational out of the box with literally zero connection to a computer or itunes. so, please, tell me what 'basic' functionality a smartphone should have out of the box that the iphone doesnt have until you buy apps?

 

 

sure, you might not like that you have to pay for media through itunes and the app store (download straight to the phone), but i would love to see you get media and software onto ANY device without connecting it to ANY computer, or paying for it through legitimate channels.

 

 

as for the hardware 'trailing', go back and check the anandtech review. choice quote:

Swift appears to offer better power/performance efficiency than any other currently available ARM architecture. Its architecture, performance and power profile most closely resemble Qualcomm’s 28nm Krait/Snapdragon S4, although through hardware or software optimizations it appears to be able to come out slightly ahead

 

For starters read the rest of the quote, not just the bit you highlighted and you might see my point.

 

Secondly lets look at some benchmarks.

 

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/136291-iphone-5-benchmarks-slower-than-the-galaxy-s3-faster-than-the-nexus-7

 

Has

 

Galaxy S3 with a score of 1781

 

Iphone 5 with a score of 1601

 

Iphone 4s with a score of around 600

 

http://maypalo.com/2012/09/17/iphone-5-dual-core-a6-1-02-ghz-processor-beats-samsung-galaxy-s3-htc-one-x/

 

Has

 

Galaxy S3 with a score of 1560

 

I can't be bothered looking into it, but lets say the second one is correct and the S3 has a benchmark of 1560. That means that the iphone performs 2.6% better than the S3. Yet the S3 performs 160% better than the iphone 4s. As already stated the iphone is playing catchup and also as already stated CPU/GPU are not the only important hardwared features on the phone and the iphone is seriously lagging in other areas. Well not just lagging they completely omit important features. It is also ridiculous one of the main navigation features is a hardware button. This is ridiculous. All of the other phone manufacturers worked out this was a bad idea years ago. Yet apple persists with it. And before you say the software workarounds simply aren't very good.

 

As for the other point with itunes, the articles I look at that talk about running iphones with itunes keep mentioning apps that cost money to replace itunes functionality. Admittedly it is good you can basically get by without itunes even if it requires ridiculous workarounds. At least some of this rubbish is being resolved under the pressure of competition.

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/255782/ditch_itunes_manage_multimedia_on_the_iphone_your_way.html

 

Not to mention all of the ridiculous workarounds people have to do to obtain basic functionality

 

http://billing.holodyn.com/knowledgebase/7/Charging-Apple-iPhone-Without-Apple-iTunes-Installed.html

 

Actually I assume this is out of date, it seems even worse than I imagined

 

http://ipod.about.com/od/iphoneapps/f/iphone-apps-without-itunes.htm

 

"

Question: Can I Get iPhone Apps Without iTunes?

 

Answer:

 

It depends on what you’re looking for. If you mean official iPhone apps, available at the App Store, and the ones that Apple promos on TV and in print, the answer is no."

 

So this is no longer correct I assume?

 

And why the heck to you need an app for things like this, surely this should be just a standard feature in the OS.

 

http://www.cultofmac.com/170663/app-copies-photos-to-iphone-without-itunes/

 

The iphone is only just getting ( or just about to) get turn-by-turn navigation in Austraila. The other OSs have had this for years. Why has it taken so long to get such a useful and important feature into the iphone.

 

I know this isn't related but why the hell is it so difficult to get your own application onto an Iphone. Look at the number of steps it is ridiculous.

 

http://mobiforge.com/developing/story/deploying-iphone-apps-real-devices.

 

In all seriousness Apple needs to lift there game or we need some other company(ies) to step up and provide some serious competition to Google (Android). We need competition, afterall the improvements go both ways. Android has had a superior feature set, which Apple has caught up on and Apple has superior polish which Android has caught up on. If Android wasn't dominating, Apple would be able to keeping getting away with their overzealous control of a device that is no longer theirs. At the same time Android also benefits greatly from Apple as they have to keep innovating to stay ahead of the competition. As it stands at the moment unless they start focusing on innovation rather than lawsuits they are in serious trouble of a repeat of what happened in the PC arena. The lattest stats show Androids are now filling around 75% of new phones sold compared to less that %20 percent for Apple. Just one year ago it was only just over 50% for Android. They have several main hurdles to conquer. People are most influenced by there friends. With the Android market share growing at such a rapid rate this is a real problem for them. People want choice. Samsung offers a model of phone to suit nearly everyones tastes, not to mention customise how the OS looks to suit their taste. There is one iphone. Maybe it is time for them to reduce profit margins and provide some vareity before they get swollowed up by the market. They have a hell of a lot of cash in researve. Perhaps it is time to spend it on R&D and seriously try to innovate. The other thing is they have made the iphone a fashion statement. People's tastes however change, yet the iphone has remained stagnate. IOS still looks much the same. The iphone 5 looks really quite similiar to the iphone 4. I think the fall in the market price is reflecting this. Don't get me wrong, with that much cash reserves if they get serious and pump a lot of money into R&D they could easily become dominant again, but if they don't make some serious changes they will begin to suffer in the mobile space.

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In all seriousness Apple needs to lift there game or we need some other company(ies) to step up and provide some serious competition to Google (Android). We need competition, afterall the improvements go both ways. Android has had a superior feature set, which Apple has caught up on and Apple has superior polish which Android has caught up on. If Android wasn't dominating, Apple would be able to keeping getting away with their overzealous control of a device that is no longer theirs. At the same time Android also benefits greatly from Apple as they have to keep innovating to stay ahead of the competition. As it stands at the moment unless they start focusing on innovation rather than lawsuits they are in serious trouble of a repeat of what happened in the PC arena. The lattest stats show Androids are now filling around 75% of new phones sold compared to less that %20 percent for Apple. Just one year ago it was only just over 50% for Android. They have several main hurdles to conquer. People are most influenced by there friends. With the Android market share growing at such a rapid rate this is a real problem for them. People want choice. Samsung offers a model of phone to suit nearly everyones tastes, not to mention customise how the OS looks to suit their taste. There is one iphone. Maybe it is time for them to reduce profit margins and provide some vareity before they get swollowed up by the market. They have a hell of a lot of cash in researve. Perhaps it is time to spend it on R&D and seriously try to innovate. The other thing is they have made the iphone a fashion statement. People's tastes however change, yet the iphone has remained stagnate. IOS still looks much the same. The iphone 5 looks really quite similiar to the iphone 4. I think the fall in the market price is reflecting this. Don't get me wrong, with that much cash reserves if they get serious and pump a lot of money into R&D they could easily become dominant again, but if they don't make some serious changes they will begin to suffer in the mobile space.

 

+1! This is what I've been saying for months...

 

 

I know exactly what point – at least for me – that Apple stopped being revolutionary. It stopped becoming revolutionary with the iPhone 4S. The iPhone4 was the peak of Apple’s revolutionary awesomeness. Nothing could really touch Apple back then. I remember the keynote and when they held up that thing and Steve Jobs compared it to a Leica camera I could just feel the salivation and desire drench the room. It was that visceral.

 

But now? iPad Mini…. are you serious? That was almost as dry as a Microsoft presentation, and Microsoft have pretty dry lifeless presentations. Apples was still higher but it was swooping dangerously close to it.

 

But as you have pointed out the competition have either caught up or are catching up in various features and it now also appears that Apple is taking notes also – so we’re not in groundbreaking awesome mode like before. Incremental meh mode.

 

I never give a company a free ride. I am willing to give Apple exactly as much credit as is due… and anyone else that gives them a smidgeon more is ruining it for the rest of us. You HAVE to keep these companies hungry. If they are underperforming, bloody TELL them! Shout it on the blogs. Make noise. Because that is what keeps them innovating. Apple is doing exactly what any company in its situation should do: They are in a good safe place. Their products are renowned the world over. They don’t want to rock the boat.

 

That’s the problem. Their competitors are hungry – the wolf on top of the hill is not as hungry as the wolves climbing the hill – as the saying goes. This is a dangerous time for Apple – where they will be tempted by the force of mediocrity – of stability – of dollar signs on the millions of loyal iFans who tout their products as the second coming. Apple is not a religion so people shouldn’t revere them. That is reserved for actual religions out there. A company making electronic devices? That is just wrong.

 

Microsoft was in that boat for the past 10 years of this sort of mediocrity before they woke up. Nokia took at least 5 years to wake up before they realised Symbian was killing them. Every company that has a golden period has this propensity to get soft – stop taking risks. Look at Microsoft in the past 24 months. Complete turnaround. These buggers are fighting as if their very survival depended on it… and with it incredible innovation.

 

I hope Apple loses market share big time and management is rattled to the core because of their really mediocre refresh (except for the iMac which I just had to fall in love with)- but seriously they need to snap out of their own reality distortion – stop procrastinating / litigating and start innovating. Serious innovation. Innovation that they have been renowned for.

the white elephant says: iOS and iPhone need widgets. They need a much larger display at say 720p HD. The problem is that iOS is optimised for 480×320 and then 960×640. Various static points. It’s not exactly free-scaling up and down like the other competitors have done. I really hate it when Schiller talks about iOS as “the most advanced” mobile phone operating system. The most successful, yes. The most lucrative – by FAR – yes. The most advanced? No! And again, this is getting back to the whole reality distortion issue. They haven’t even recognised that they are falling behind the competition. They need to snap out of it – as well as their fan base – and start to seriously think about implementing these features in to iOS and bringing it up where it’s lagging behind.

 

That is my problem at the moment with Apple. They aren’t even recognising that they got to get moving. It’s probably ingrained in their upper management culture. They can do no wrong. They are the best. They are the biggest publically traded company in the world. That can get to you. It makes you believe that you are untouchable. Well… from the looks of their share price (90 billion wiped out from peak as of close of business last) they are in for a very very rude awakening soon. Apple have driven itself into the ground before and it was all upper management bullshit before Steve swoooped in to rescue them. He’s left them at the top and, gosh, it looks like it’s the same old bs all over again. Unbelievable. I hope I’m wrong – but what else can I think? All the signs are there. Procrastination? Incremental improvements? Is history going to repeat itself. I hope not sir. I hope not. Let’s just hope against hope…

 

 

PS: Their market cap is now below $500bn. That's a 25% drop since September. That makes them an incredibly cheap buy if they are going to go back up... or if it's just a pitstop on the way down then, well, I guess we'll see.

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Apple is not a religion so people shouldn’t revere them. That is reserved for actual religions out there. A company making electronic devices? That is just wrong.

This is the problem and the reason why i would love nothing more than to watch Apple crumble away and be crushed by the weight of their own arrogance.

They have touted their products like a religion since the 90's, blind Apple fandom was the only thing that kept that company from slipping beneath the waves long enough for Jobs to come back and show them how it's done again.

The fanaticism of iTards today is just sickening and it is only bad for the technology market. With a great big flashy (but empty) behemoth like Apple stomping around the place filing lawsuits against anybody who dares to do EXACTLY THE SAME THING APPLE HAS ALWAYS DONE it only serves to stifle development.

Steve Jobs went to the grave a hypocritical bitter old man, Apple will hopefully follow.

 

"good artists copy, great artists steal"

-Steve Jobs

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I also find it funny that Apple fanboi's (every Apple supporter in this thread can claim that title i'm afraid) will call me an Android lover in this topic because of my opposition to Apple.

Then these same people will call me a Microsoft fan in the Windows Vs Mac OS argument.

 

I bag shit products and support good ones. Just because i can see through all the pointless puffery that Apple shrouds their products in, does not mean i support their competition unconditionally.

 

In their blind reverence of their deity, iFans naturally jump to the good old "with us or against us" reaction.

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I also find it funny that Apple fanboi's (every Apple supporter in this thread can claim that title i'm afraid) will call me an Android lover in this topic because of my opposition to Apple.

Then these same people will call me a Microsoft fan in the Windows Vs Mac OS argument.

 

I bag shit products and support good ones. Just because i can see through all the pointless puffery that Apple shrouds their products in, does not mean i support their competition unconditionally.

 

In their blind reverence of their deity, iFans naturally jump to the good old "with us or against us" reaction.

Basically because many ifags cannot look at technology objectively. I've had iPhones now I don't simply because far superior products exist.

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aaol_down10.png

 

stock has gone............... f**king GONESKI!!!

 

 

:sex::thumb:

 

:shades:

 

:hammer:

 

:hypo:

 

:thumbsup:

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Just dipped below trend mate, spooks investors. Will stabilise over the next week.

 

They have amazing cash reserves so aren't going anywhere, just need direction.

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That cash reserve wont go anywhere for a fair while, they have banked alot of money and as we have seen in recent years companys can go for a very very very long time milking out the money they do have before anybody will even notice.

 

Since apple puts very little money into there actual Engineering and Infrastructure of the OS it is a really cheap build that makes alot of money back in comparison to Samsung/Android which make massive changes to Hardware and OS so the money return isnt as strong.

 

Apple wont go down due to Dollars it will just go down to popularity which doesn't really happen to many other electronics products as they evolve but apple doesnt they stick to there own bubble, and that wont happen overnight either its going to atleast take another 2years.. Its already been 3revisions of iPhone now that people arent happy with iPhone4/4S/5 so if they continue as they are with still ever so small increments in actual technology people will begin to make the switch to the other vendors out there.

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Its already been 3revisions of iPhone now that people arent happy with iPhone4/4S/5 so if they continue as they are with still ever so small increments in actual technology people will begin to make the switch to the other vendors out there.

 

People have already begun.

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Funny ppl who think Apple is doomed even though they just had another record quarter... Sure they Didn't make Wall Streets super high expectations but I guess record device sales & profits don't mean much to them, all they seem to care about is marketshare figures. It's like they are scared the same thing is going to happen to Apple that happened in the PC wars back in the day, I think Apple is better prepared this time around.

 

With over 135 Billion in cash I don't think they are going anywhere soon.

 

Haters love to hate

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Funny ppl who think Apple is doomed even though they just had another record quarter... Sure they Didn't make Wall Streets super high expectations but I guess record device sales & profits don't mean much to them, all they seem to care about is marketshare figures. It's like they are scared the same thing is going to happen to Apple that happened in the PC wars back in the day, I think Apple is better prepared this time around.

 

With over 135 Billion in cash I don't think they are going anywhere soon.

 

Haters love to hate

 

Wall street is looking beyond the present and immediate future.

Device sales mean little when your company is slowly being left behind by the market.

It also bothers investors that Apple have not released anything new for years, and are showing no signs of breaking that trend any time soon.

 

Nobody is saying that Apple will be going under any time soon, we are saying that they are well on track to becoming the next IBM or Nokia. A giant of days gone by who's talented people have all filtered off to newer brighter companies and are just sitting in the background riding their cash stockpile.

 

We can only hope they make a big investment in a new venture in a gamble to gain back the edge only for it to flop taking their cash with it and fast tracking the inevitable by a few decades.

Edited by Chappy

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That is a very good point about Nokia they were an amazingly strong force, they were litteraly the ONLY real force when it came to mobile decisions if you turn the clock back 10years around when they were making there 70/80 series phones.

 

As time went on others made the technological advances and that stock pile of cash did dwindle away and over the last 5years they have been hit incredibly hard.

 

0dfVUeI.jpg

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Even as late as 2006/7 EVERYBODY had a Nokia N95 because they were THE phone to have.

Then the iPhone got released and Nokia were f**ked to pieces.

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I've still got 2 x N95's sitting on my desk right now. When the N97 came out I bought one, didn't like it and bought an N95 8GB instead, they were the best non-touchscreen phone around at the time. Now looking back, they're the equivelant of a 3310 :lol:. Amazing how far technology has come.

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I've still got 2 x N95's sitting on my desk right now. When the N97 came out I bought one, didn't like it and bought an N95 8GB instead, they were the best non-touchscreen phone around at the time. Now looking back, they're the equivelant of a 3310 laugh.png. Amazing how far technology has come.

 

and how quickly.

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Technology hasn't come that far, touchscreen technology had been around for ages, even capacitive.

 

The big change that happened with the iPhone was somebody finally found a way to make touchscreen devices both commercially viable and desirable for the masses.

This caused a huge injection of demand into the smartphone industry and with it an explosion of innovation.

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