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Samsung v Apple - The Copyright Court case

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So if you have been living under a rock, you may not have heard that Samsung and Apple have been going to court in practically every country over copyright claims!

 

Well currently they are undergoing most likely the highest level of case they have been under and this is mainly the entire battle, generally as each country happens they battle per device such as Banning the Galaxy S3 from being sold or other devices, but now its Company v Company.

 

Samsung leaked out a Document which shows of a Sony-Style iPhone that they were told to not leak which may hurt Samsung in court, but we will see how that changes over the comming days/weeks!

http://assets.sbnati...trial_brief.pdf

 

Currently this court case has Apple seeking 2.5billion dollars

Apple claims that Samsung has knowingly infringed on its patented ideas, such as producing a tablet with a rectangular front screen with rounded corners and the technology behind using multiple fingers to control a tablet.

 

As a result, the world's most valuable company claims that Samsung has robbed it of $500m in profits, and the Koreans have used purloined technology to overtake Cupertino in the global smartphone market. It wants retrospective damages and a court-mandated royalty on all Samsung products that use the common design features in the future.

 

Samsung has responded by claiming that Apple is trying to trying "to stifle legitimate competition and limit consumer choice to maintain its historically exorbitant profits." It also points out that Apple, which is a substantial Samsung customer, should be paying more for the intellectual property it uses.

 

As a result, anyone who tries to build hardware using the same shapes and functions as an iPad or iPhone will have to pay what is effectively a tablet tax. Patent-watching corporate consultant and commentator Florian Meuller says that the court filings show that Apple is seeking a future royalty scheme that would add over $30 per tablet for the privilege of using Cupertino's intellectual property.

 

This breaks down to $24 per unit for the basic tablet design, $3.10 for its scrolling API function, and $2.02 apiece for using tap to zoom and navigate, and "overscroll bounce" feature – that is, if Judge Koh can be persuaded that Apple has reasonable claim.

Edited by antonioシ

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Been reading about this, it's becoming a joke imo, arguing over rectangles.

 

The American Patent system/laws seriously need to be looked at.

 

This is a good little video...

 

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You're completely right, the patent system is so open to exploitation. It's like this stupid domain extension sale, where people could purchase a .xxx or whatever. It's been created for a small selection of people to make a lot of money and not much else.

 

techdirt.com do a fair bit of coverage on how shit the patent system is too. They tend to harp on about the same shit over and over again though somteimes.

 

snip

 

That's not quiiiiite how it's going down. Samsung were trying to enter the previous phone designs (which the developers are saying they're based on Sony designs, not Apple) "too late" into the scene according to Judge Poh. Apple had already prepared a rebuttal to the designs, but Judge Poh denied the evidence anyway, whereas other judges have speculated that normally the extra evidence would have been included without any problems (esp. considering Apple had already planned a rebuttal). Samsung then gave the photos to the press and now Apple are trying to claim that Samsung are trying to influence the jury outside of the court room. All of the designs etc that weren't allowed to be included in the trial, however, have been available to the public since before the hearing.

 

It looks like a bit of disorganisation on Samsung's side, but there can't really be any malice in it, considering the designs were already available publicly since before the trial anyway.

Edited by pyro

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Thanks for clearing that up, its a pain and a half reading over like 60 tech sites which have everything written slightly different =/

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Pretty much every tablet ever made had a rectangular screen it is the logical shape for a tablet. Why do Apple copy stuff and then claim they invented it. I have no problem with them copy stuff, it is what everybody else is doing to. Usually with small incremental improvements, but they really have become such outrageous patent trolls. Admittedly they aren't the only company trolling with the pattents, but they are certainly a leader in this area and it is a bit annoying because the consumer is the one that losses out. They are fighting against innovation for one and we cop the legal bills though the price of our tech goods.

 

Some early tablets amazingly with rectangular screens.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/15/history-tablet-pc-photos_n_538806.html#s77827&title=RAND_Tablet_1964

 

This pattent stuff is such a joke. The first multitouch tablet were made in the mid 80s. I am pretty sure this pre dates the Ipad. Actually the idea of multitouch predates Apple as a company.

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Thanks for clearing that up, its a pain and a half reading over like 60 tech sites which have everything written slightly different =/

don't worry, i share your sentiment. One morning i read Ars Technica, TechDirt and Wired all reporting on this and they all gave me a different version .... <_>

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Pretty much every tablet ever made had a rectangular screen it is the logical shape for a tablet. Why do Apple copy stuff and then claim they invented it. I have no problem with them copy stuff, it is what everybody else is doing to. Usually with small incremental improvements, but they really have become such outrageous patent trolls. Admittedly they aren't the only company trolling with the pattents, but they are certainly a leader in this area and it is a bit annoying because the consumer is the one that losses out. They are fighting against innovation for one and we cop the legal bills though the price of our tech goods.

 

Some early tablets amazingly with rectangular screens.

http://www.huffingto...AND_Tablet_1964

 

This pattent stuff is such a joke. The first multitouch tablet were made in the mid 80s. I am pretty sure this pre dates the Ipad. Actually the idea of multitouch predates Apple as a company.

 

This is not about 'rectangular screens' and if you are seeing that as the argument you should probably step aside.

 

This is about samsung copying the ipads physical features and software/GUI to the point that apple is concerned grandmas wont recognise the difference when little timmy asks for an ipad for christmas.

 

it is not hard to see where samsung has copied apples designs. we had a galaxy tab in at work the other day and holy hell, even the USB cable is similar to an ipod cable! the charger is a similar shape too. their icons in the GUI mimic others in the iOS gui also.

 

I think patent disputes are mostly rubbish and agree that there is a huge problem with the current system in place. but there is some pretty blatant copying going on on behalf of samsung.

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This is not about 'rectangular screens' and if you are seeing that as the argument you should probably step aside.

 

 

Actually it is, read the original quote. Or have a bit of a google. It is a slight oversimplification of the issue but it pretty much sums it up. People on tech sites have been making jokes about the ridiculous nature of these patents and claims for quite some time. This happens on pretty much all of the tech blogs. Don't get caught up in the Apple propoganda engine it will just make you look like an idiot on a tech site. So will comments like telling people to step aside. I am not rubbishing apple products by the way, just the pattent trolling or more so the ridiculous spins they put on there case. It is fine you are a fan of Apple products but take the blinkers off and don't get sucked into the propoganda engine.

 

Just in case the rectangles argument is still a bit difficult for you to follow, essentially tablets have been rectangles long before Apple came about. The rectangles gradually got better looking over time and this included the ipad. Gradual innovation where everybody was copying the same basic concept. Like Apple copying the previous iteration sure enough Samsung has copied Apple to an extent, but lets say we have a look at laptops. They all have that same wedge design. Did you know Apple has recently pattented the wedge, but hasn't Apple really just copied everybody else. Yer sure some wedges look a little different but they are all essentially the same. Nobody else is claiming other companies are copying them though even though there laptops look exactly the same. This is why all the tech blogs make fun of Apple. Now linux has been essentially running an App market for long before Apple, but Apple at one stage was getting upset at everybody claiming it was there idea and threating to sue over the name. No one in the Linux world really cares that Apple and Microsoft copy there stuff by the way as the Linux world does just as much copying themselves. It is essentially how we innovate an improve. None of these ideas Apple does a new, they are perhaps better pollished than previous items but that is the whole point about releasing a new product to improve over an older one. That is infact what happens a lot of the time, yet somehow when Apple does it it is more special than when everybody else is doing it. They can copy others but nobody can copy them. Now you could cry out that Apple have copied the wedge on there laptop design or the copied some flatter designs of Sony in the macbooks, but nobody even thinks of doing this. It is because it is idiotic. Heck sony have had macbook air sized laptops before the Macbook air. Do we get all upset that Apple copied the small laptop design of Sony. No because that would ridiculous. This is why people have been making fun of Apple and making the rectangles joke. It is poking fun of how moronic Apples claims are.

 

Lets put it another way. In the mobile phone space before Apple came on board, lets say someone put a camera on the phone, then eveybody else copied. Lets say someone made a better phone say it had 3.2 megapixes, this became the new standard and others copied. Lets say then phones could record videos this became the new standard and everybody copied. Lets say a phone was able to play music, everybody else copied. Now when Apple does something, even perhaps far less significant (at the time) than putting a 3.2 megapixel camera on a phone, if some one else copies Apple takes them to court and tries to sue them for copying. Now think about how many basic features that are on the iphone that were on the Iphone before Apple came about. Apple copied all these features and that is fine. It was what everybody else was doing. Well you can't copy 100 features and then add one and say nobody can copy yours and not expect people to make fun of you. Or worse make a wedge laptop and then say nobody else can make a wedge. The fact is sure some companies are copying Apple, but Apple is sure as hell copying what others are doing to.

Edited by s15_is_sx

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It is crazy, but common place in modern corporate affairs; patent divisions are fast becoming larger than marketing & R&D.

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It is crazy, but common place in modern corporate affairs; patent divisions are fast becoming larger than marketing & R&D.

 

There are actually companies out there where there entire income comes from patent trolling. We cop the bill unfortunately. Apple may be the loudest when it comes to this issue, but M$ are far better at it. They

make more money by making deals with Android manufacturers to not sue them than they do off Windows phones.

 

On another interesting but unrelated issue, I found out the other day that there are companies out there that make a fortune (100s of millions) of selling browser exploits to Goverments. I can't remember the name of the company of the top of my head but govements need to pay them $100000 per year just to see there list of exploits. Then they negotiate prices on each exploit that the governments are interested in. Crazy stuff. (Off topic, but I just remembered it and thougt it was interesting). Edit: Just looked up the reference in case anybody is interested. http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/18177/exploits-for-sale-techsnap-50/ . The information is basically in the show notes down the bottom or you could watch the show, but it is very nerdy so be warned.

Edited by s15_is_sx

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^I used to work in encryption / penetration testing (management, not neck beard :lol: ) - part of the tech team role was to fish for exploits but predominantly we were involved in commissioned hacks (white hat). My role was directing the sales teams to vulnerabilities discovered on a hack so similar to the above.

 

There have been several bills passed in the last 12 months to stop patent trolls; they are now required to show reasonable investment/development of a patent or they face having it removed & getting a chunky fine. It won't stop Apple/MS/Samsung because they patent actual tech but it will at least stop smart asses from guessing what is ahead of the curve and registering domain names, laying claim to concepts etc.

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I just love how Samsung and Apple are just freaking out now that its getting warmer and each company is using different tactics..

 

Apple are not wanting the information in regards to how they perform market research leaked out, which is against Steve Jobs who originally said that Apple does not provide market research at all, but now that its being taken to court everything is up in the air and Apple are not fairing to well with there 'We keep everything to ourself' method, even the Source Code of iOS was asked to be presented to the court by Samsung to be used as exhibits but once again Apple are saying due to Security concerns they do not want to show this source code.

 

 

Jobs responded, "None. It isn't the consumers' job to know what they want. It's hard for [consumers] to tell you what they want when they've never seen anything remotely like it."

 

Every month, Apple surveys iPhone buyers and Joswiak explains what Apple is able to glean from these surveys.

The surveys reveal, country-by-country, what is driving our customers to buy Apple's iPhone products versus other products such as the Android products that Samsung sells, what features they most use, our customers' demographics and their level of satisfaction with different aspects of iPhone.

 

So if this information was to make its way out of the court room or even into the court room in the 1st place alot of Vendors would instantly know the selling points that Apple customers are after.

 

wow its really heating up!

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I think this video with the CEO of yammer sums up the issues of the US patent system pretty well.

 

http://youtu.be/rSjVTN_g0Jk

 

I think his idea that most technology patents (especially those revolving around code) would be better served by copyright rather than the patent system and that the current system of dealing with things is/will really hurt innovation in the future.

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On another interesting but unrelated issue, I found out the other day that there are companies out there that make a fortune (100s of millions) of selling browser exploits to Goverments. I can't remember the name of the company of the top of my head but govements need to pay them $100000 per year just to see there list of exploits. Then they negotiate prices on each exploit that the governments are interested in. Crazy stuff. (Off topic, but I just remembered it and thougt it was interesting). Edit: Just looked up the reference in case anybody is interested. http://www.jupiterbr...le-techsnap-50/ . The information is basically in the show notes down the bottom or you could watch the show, but it is very nerdy so be warned.

I think this was part of the reason for Pwn2Own being created wasn't it? To bring it further into the public light and away from secret governments?

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So gentlemen. Bets on? I'm hoping Samsung win, but I don't know if it will happen considering how many times Samsung's legal team have screwed up.

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Well looks like Apple won the court case but are they going to win the war? The innovation that will come out of the smartphone/ tablet market is going to be interesting to watch over the next few years.

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I hope this starts a long burning road for apple, this effects everyone that interacts with technology. I was anti apple after my last two phones being IPhones and it wasn't till I when to Android base I saw how over priced and controlling apple products are, just like the media does and the government do. Apple has found the loop hole to jump on the bandwagon and with support of such a strong hippy based army its going to set back technology years if its not stopped..

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If Apple succeeds in stopping Samsung from selling all phones within the US, Samsung could just set up the worlds biggest online phone store then curb stomp apple with much lower prices.

 

I also wonder if a sale ban would prevent Samsung stores from providing after sales and warranty support to customers who buy online?

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If Apple succeeds in stopping Samsung from selling all phones within the US, Samsung could just set up the worlds biggest online phone store then curb stomp apple with much lower prices.

 

I also wonder if a sale ban would prevent Samsung stores from providing after sales and warranty support to customers who buy online?

I was thinking this as well, but it probably wouldn't work for phone companies who give you a phone with your choice of plan. It wouldn't stop you buying phones outright, but I don't think the majority do this tbh.

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They could start payment plans under Samsung Finance.

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