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Five O Motorsport 1000cc & 1200cc Side Feed Injectors - Review

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Though I would write up some information on these injectors, since there's no much around on the interwebz.

 

Please note, I am not a sponsor or anything like that.

 

1000cc Side Feeds:

 

Background

 

Recently #Killaflop had some issues with getting enough fuel into his motor with stock S15 injectors, for some reason no matter how much fuel I added into his map it would lean out on peak torque which lead me to think his fuel pump was shot. We replaced that, and same shit the car would lean out... however on an identical S15 there wasn't any fueling problems with a very similar map I put together. So instead of tickering with other shit, I just told him to fork out and get bigger injectors - since we always wanted to get his car on E85.

 

There were a few options either to convert to top feed (too much work/money) OR get Nismo 740cc side feeds. The latter would have been ideal, but for the cost no way! I've read on SAU and other US based Nissan forums and many have had good results with Five O Motorsport Injectors, and their flow charts seem decent too. So what the heck, I told him to go get them which he did.

 

Just some background information, yes these are "modified/highflowed" OEM JEC injectors, although they are modified from new not used injectors.In terms of fitment, plugs, etc. they are identical to your run of the JECs injector so installation is an out/in affair. Some slight differences however, the 4x port holes have been removed and replaced with a single nozzle which appears to be mated onto the injector. The pintle cap has also been removed and replaced with a plastic cap. I assume this is to replicate the spray pattern of an ID (cone mist/spray).

 

842-18114-850_nozzle_600.jpg

 

Setup & Tuning

 

Can't remember exactly what the spec sheet says for latency, I think it was 670 microseconds - which isn't "that" bad on paper.

 

Now to tuning the car using a Nistune, I had to set the latency to about 830 microseconds to get them to idle properly and used the scaling feature in the software so regardless what the spec sheets say they're inaccurate. So far so good - however because the car is only running 98RON with such massive injectors it took some stuffing about to get them to idle at stoich. The best I could do was 14.2 on idle and around 14 on cruise, which isn't too bad for massive modified sidefeeds. On the Nistune map, the injection values were between 1~3.

 

Cold starts, warm starts, fuel decels tables have all been adjusted and the car runs/starts like factory. Just one idiosyncrasy with Nistune, as soon as you flick on the A/C the AFR drops to like 13. I couldn't find a table to adjust this at all - however I could have missed it.

 

Anyhow, injectors work fine, fueling is how I expected it and car runs awesome. Next will be E85, this will be where the injectors will shine and hopefully I can get the right AFR on idle as the motor will demand more fuel so with the minimum injection time I can hit the right AFRs.

 

 

 

1200cc Side Feeds:

 

Background

 

I bought a used set of 1200cc Five O side feeds - thinking that I great success with the 1000cc on KillerFlop's car I thought hey this is pretty cheap, especially for $415 for 6. So there I was, happy as a pig in mud waiting for them to come.

 

So I went to install it all, and turns out 1x injector was seized, fuuarked, etc.. after a few hours trying to tune it out (being lazy and adding in more fuel) it flooded and hydrolocked my motor.. Yes fk me - ok no biggie, I'll go buy another two, one to replace one as a spare.

 

Okay - so I got the car running and all, but these fuarking little karnnts of an injector will NOT idle properly under 2.2ms, the car will hunt/stall and all sorts of bullshit. The best I could achieve was 1.7ms with a slight miss and AFRs of 12.2.

 

 

Conclusion:

They are shit.

Edited by Johnnilicte

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Sweet . Cheers for talking the time to write up your results. .

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Ps that's weird with the air con ... Dropping it to 13 ...

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^ Oh Hai!

 

that's awesome, can't wait to hear your results, I should be getting my mate's car on E85 (road tuned first) - then I'll hire out a dyno and keeping punching in timing till it stops making power.

 

Hoping to hit north of 220kW on the stock turbo, stock cams, last time I was able to get 197kW at the rears (98RON), but car stopped making power with 17 degrees of timing up top after the timing hole which had 10 degrees.

Edited by Johnnilicte

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On a healthy motor with e85 220kw should be doable. Mine did 215kw with about 19* peak timing. That wasn't the most timing it would take either.

 

Interesting that you can't lean them out. Did you lower minimum injector pulsewidth in nistune? That'll stop it going leaner. All the bosch 2200s I've tuned will idle leaner than 16 stable if I need them to and they're double the size.

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Interesting that you can't lean them out. Did you lower minimum injector pulsewidth in nistune? That'll stop it going leaner.

 

I didn't touch that table, actually good point I'll have a look at it next when I revisit the tune, in saying that next time it sees a laptop connected to it it's going to be for E85 :D

Edited by Johnnilicte

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the quoted latency would have been 670 microseconds (670us), not milliseconds (ms) :P

 

Basically; that's a really high latency, unfortunately. I've got the same problem with my sard sidefeeds... very high latency results in inconsistent tuning, even with latency (or deadtime) factored in (because it's a non-linear region, you need more information to adequately map it).

 

The reality is, almost every injector from the 90s will be like this; they're just an older design. If you want perfect response, idle and ease-of-tuning you need more modern injectors... the newer series bosch (also branded as injector dynamics, re; the popular ID1000/ID2000 injectors) and some other really high end manufacturers will give you low deadtime injectors etc etc. Atomisation/spray-pattern/whatever, despite any marketing bullshit, hasn't changed since the late 80s so your WOT performance will not change compared to older style injectors.

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^ hahaha good pick up, I have edited the first post :)

 

Yeah even with the reported latency "figures", the car needed more than 800 microseconds for the idle to stablise, however as the latency increased the ability keep it at stoich was harder. On the Nistune map, the idle cells have a value of 2.

 

Yeah definitely old technology however the idle is perfect and the injector control "isn't that bad" I'm able to get between 11.5 ~ 11.8 all where it matters. On cruise, and doodling around town I was able to keep it round 13.5 ~ 14.7 (vacuum).

 

Once it gets on E85, I'm sure I will be able to hit stoich and have more control as the motor will require more fuel with E85 and with the minimum fuel these injectors can deliver it should be just right.

 

I must admit, I've only used Nistune on 3x vehicles (realised now 3, road tuned another forum member on Sunday) and still learning - I mainly tune with PowerFC, Adaptronic & Haltech. I still need to touch up the TTPmin table which I missed out completely. Let's see how the economy goes with these injectors after a full tank - KillaFlop will report back :)

Edited by Johnnilicte

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e85 really helps because you'll be moving 30% more volume flow; ~30% longer injector open times... so if you're really lucky you might be out of the non-linear zone and then the idle will be great. Also another thing about deadtime, it's individual to the setup. The injector-driver style (peak and hold vs traditional), fuel pressure and supply voltage will all affect the deadtime (voltage in particular changes the shape of the non-linear zone, not just the size of it and the NLZ is very sensitive to voltage changes).

 

Nistune is a very capable ecu, should be fine once you've finished tuning it. I still prefer my megasquirt... very sad that i can't get a plug-n-play for any of the cars I use T_T

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^ exactly my thoughts :)

 

I quite like Nistune, the software is pretty powerful - especially the trace input window. No need to constantly create pivot tables to look at AFRs vs. Load vs. RPM like other ECUs.

 

I haven't used Megasquirt, but a mate of mine who's a Mitsubishi enthusiast loves them and has shown the software to me and it's pretty decent (for something that's open source).

 

x days to E85 lol... and infinite days till my car sees E85.

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I just had my car retuned on E85 with Five-O 1200's. Not one problem with them.

 

S15

Disco .64 housing

Poncams

Power FC

 

68F278C1-2140-4230-8ABA-040EB862C35A_zpsxqtxp7zz.jpg

Edited by SJB87

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1526331_10152362032121204_2026529410_n.jpg

 

 

I have these 1000cc on e85, td06l2, poncams, NO problems.

Edited by dangles

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I have these 1000cc on e85, td06l2, poncams, NO problems.

 

What boost are you running to make that power?

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Keen to see some results on e85 with these.

I have a set of 750's on my rb25 running 98. Odd cough when idling and low throttle driving wasn't as good as factory.

Planning on going e85 and at crossroads as to whether try again with these are go for id1000's.

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On E85 these injectors would run better and to test the theory I will be converting the S15 to E85 soon and hiring a dyno to milk the motor for power.

 

 

Will update as I go along, hopefully will be done next month - just need to find the time to road tune with E85 first before popping it on the dyno for all the high load areas.

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Was coming on here to search this topic haha.

Had 1200cc's in my rb25 for about 8 months. Running e85.

 

3 months ago, Do a track day go to start next day injector 1 not firing? Pull out rail check everything. Resistance on that one measured 28 ohms. Rest were between 11 to 11.3 on the rest.

Purchased another 2 injectors from five0 "just in case" sure enough 2 months later same thing happened. This time multimeter just said O.L

Removed rail and noticed filters were starting to corrode.

Removed all filters. Installed new one. Everything is currently fine. Connected five0 they insisted me if I sent them back they will be replaced. When they received them they refused because the injectors had marks where they were removed. They will not shed any light as to what could be wrong with them.

 

As for soloution don't want to go top feeds cause I like the stock plenum.

Have order another 2 just incase it happens again.

As for corroded filters five0 said that is the fuel I'm using, whereas ebay add says fine to run e85?

 

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Stao from hypergear had the same problem on his skyline test car with the 1200cc on e85

1 injector stopped working

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I just picked up a set of 1200cc off a member from SAU. Will check, test, install this weekend and report back.

 

Five O did mention that regular tanks of 98RON is required to pass through the injectors every so often to keep them happy

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ECU won't do anything to injectors... if the filters are corroded then the five-o people are being cheap and using out of spec filters. There are other reasons why e85 might kill an injector but they're a bit more far-fetched than that.

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This isn't a good sign. It would seem you need to run 98 every few tanks to stop the e85 drying out the injectors and corroding them. I hope they release flex fuel for nistune soon.

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They are old tech after all, the ideal solution is stainless steel bodied injectors which will love the E85 passing through... but on an economical sale converting to top feed, new rails, spacers (on S14/15) external fuel regs then all add up.

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Flex fuel for nistune is out and running, has been for about a week. Launch control and fan control was also implemented. At this stage it only works with a zeitronix unit as that converts the ethanol reading to a voltage, not a frequency. They're working on a cheaper solution with the

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Flex fuel is out only for s14/15 and r32 nistune

Testing is still on going for other models

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There's documentation on the nistune site. Pretty comprehensive

 

Could you post a link? Can't find it on the site.

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