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Posts posted by buoy

  1. why do you say that bouy?


    what about the new RX8, its fuel consumption is nothing to shout about and its a brand new car, with the latest designed rotary engine.


    i still love em though.



    Well, the renesis engine should be comparable to a 2.6L piston engine in fuel consumption... also the fact that this is an engine designed more for performance than economy. If they were to make the mazda equivalent of a camry and used a renesis that was detuned and had very conservative fuel usage you would see perhaps a 130bhp 1.3L rotary renesis capable of good fuel economy in a small family car. That sort of thing....

  2. To make the turbo spool up faster on the street, you can:

    - Get an EBC - holds the wastegate closed for as long as possible to aid spool-up that pneumatic valves can't immitate.

    - If you have an aftermarket ECU, lean out the A/F ratio just before the turbo spools - this will heat exhaust gasses aiding in their "expansion" and exit speed out of the exhaust turbine, thus aiding spool-up. You can get a good couple hundred rpm sooner spool-up... even 500rpm sooner if it was running pretty rich.

    - Change your cams to aid spool-up. This will almost certainly result in less fuel efficiency but if you want the cams to work for the spool not for fuel conservation, do that.

    - Finally, if you haven't done so already get a good dump pipe and exhaust system that is as least restrictive as possible. You'll lose torque earlier on the rev range and the "on" boost feeling will be a lot more noticeable, but it will aid spool-up.

  3. A cheap route is the VG 30 turbo.

    (from meggala.com):

    The vg 30 turbo(from the vg30det not the twin turbo dett) is a non ballbearing ceramic turbo that can handle quite a bit of boost up to 16-17 psi it starts spooling around 3000 3200 and is at full boost by 4000 and really kicks at 5000. nice and hard and fast in an rb20 it could make 190 rwkw

  4. yeah - the rollers are a known weight and the resistence can be measured ie torque required to move them. the equation for horsepower is generally

    horsepower = torque * rpm / 5252

    now this rpm thing is what can throw dynos off. are your wheels too big?

    i think some dynos say drive up to xxx km/hr and punch in the speed and it is able to work around your tyre size difference BUT only if it knows your gear ratio, which it would default to 1:1 on 4th... assuming that is what you've got on ur car.

    so some dynos can read differently. there are also elevation issues - how high are you from sea level? this would affect things like the wastegate and boost-level of your car. the higher you go, the less horsepower your car can make. For instance, the ct26 on my car is able to product 14.7psi at sea level and 11.1psi at 7,500 feet above sea level at the SAME shaft speed of the turbine. So, this has to be factored in as well.

    also, ambient temp. there is a rough guide floating around that a 10 degree drop in ambient temp results in a 1% gain in hp... or something to that end. i'm not sure if it is that accurate and is only a guide. i also believe that is for the farenheit scale so dont try working with it in celsius.

    if your dyno is reading your RPM incorrectly you could get MORE or LESS power depending on how far off you were.

    For instance, if your engine was producing 300ft-lbs of torque at 4000rpm but you told the dyno this torque figure was at 4500rpm, this is what the difference would be:

    hp at 4000rpm = 300 x 4000 / 5252   ---> 228rwhp

    hp at 4500rpm = 300 x 4500 / 5252   ---> 257rwhp

    So you can see by the above if you are just 500rpm off of what the dyno THINKs you are at opposed to where you ARE at can give you really different dyno figures.

  5. A good place would have been Online Performance (www.onlineperformance.com.au) but they've been so inundated with work and their drag car's doing the rounds, it would be hard for them to do anything for ya. The waiting list for major mods over there is like 3 months lol!

    They are familiar with MicroTech, but they are actually moving towards a full Motec system ($6,000+) on their drag car. Even so, for fabricating stuff like manifolds - if you can get them to do it - they do a great job.

  6. Really, at the end of the day, having less petrol in your tank is going to make more difference than an air filter would, even on a turbo car. Of course, if you have done a fair few mods and are pushing decent power figures the air filter can release more horsepower but if its the only mod you've done don't expect to be pushed back in your seat lol! You may get a nice wooshing sound which is the air sucking through the filter. It depends how restrictive your current air filter is, and even then the compressor can almost totally compensate for this.

    I'd just get a nice free-flowing pod... and make sure its getting cold-air. This can be just as important, if not more important, than which brand of filter you wish to get.

    Having an exposed pod filter inside your engine bay on a hot day could actually be detrimental to performance.

  7. First this,

    They're 480cc injectors, there's a fair bit of headroom yet.

    Ummm... no, they aren't. Look:

    The S15 Injectors be them Jap or Local Version is only 440cc.


    There was never 480cc S15 standard injectors...

    I know because it says so on my japanese books... 440cc

    Then this,

    "A CT26 can be boosted up to 16psi safely in completely stock form"

    S15 turbos are regularlky run in the mid 17's and still in decent efficiency range. 18-20 things are strating to drop off and around 20psi is the reliability limit as over that shaft speed gets a bit high. I'm not one for big boost, in fact I've been quite known in SR circles for telling people to turn it down, but 17psi isn't a major drama at all.

    Stock? Which is what we're asking here......... and the answer is: No. To run above 1 bar on the stock ECU is very bad. You can run 17psi if you want... but its getting dangerous.

    From here: At the meoment I've got about 140RWKW, ordered a Walbro 255lph fuel pump from the US for $160 delivered and am looking for a Z32 AFM at the moment. The Z-32 allows a greater amount of air to pass through than the factory AFM...more air(colder the better) + more fuel = more power. Might want to consider some Sard or HKS 550cc injectors at the same time(about $700)and are a drop in replacement


    With the above additions should be lookling at about 170-180 reliable RWKW according to the good DR DRIFT smiley4.gif at about 12psi and maybe a bit more with 1psi(OK as long as its for VERY SHORT bursts). I'm getting a boost controller fitted with a high low switch low will be 10psi and high will be about 13psi(that leaves about 1.5psi as a safety margin if the boost controller spikes (factory turbo doesn't like more than 1bar).


    CES HPS Dump................$900.00

    3inch cat back local shop...$650.00

    UAS FMIC...................$1150.00

    soon to be installed

    Walbro 255lph fuel pump.....$160.00

    Z-32 AFM....................$350.00

    Boost control...............$250.00

    ECU remap...................$600.00


    Injectors-SARD 550cc's......$760.00

    My Final TOTAL.............$4820.00

    And finally,

    buoy - thats why I'd love to see the cars on the same dyno on the same day, you're making quite a bit more than any other MR2 turbo I've played with or seen dynoed with those sorts of mods so I'm intrigued as to where the power is coming from. To clarify a couple fo things in your post

    Mine aint nothing special, dude :) It's quite tame, infact. 156rwkw is just 210rwhp. That's nothing. Here's a bit out of the 3S-GTE primer:

    from here

    Applying the Basics to the 3S-GTE

    Strength and a low compression ratio allow the stock 3S-GTE to easily handle higher that stock levels of boost pressure. Maximum stock boost pressure is 10-11psi. With the addition of three simple, inexpensive devices, this can be safely increased to 15psi for a gain of nearly 10rwhp per additional pound of boost. After doing this, you can expect to be producing around 200rwhp. First, you need an accurate boost gauge to be sure that you are not accidentally boosting above 15psi. The stock boost gauge is slow to respond, peaks out before 15psi and has no numbers to tell you how high you are boosting. Second, you need to raise the point at which the protective fuel cut feature kicks in from around 12psi to 16 or 17psi. This can be done easily and inexpensively as shown here. Finally, you need a boost controller to raise the actual factory set boost pressure to 15psi. Manual boost controllers are inexpensive and do the job while electronic boost controllers are more expensive but allow easy adjustment from the cabin. If you get a manual boost controller, go with a ball and spring type instead of a bleeder type. Ball and spring controllers keep the wastegate shut until you approach the desired boost limit while bleeder types let the wastegate partly open at lower boost and result in a slower transition to full boost. Many boost controllers are available with CARB exemption stickers, so you can take advantage of this performance enhancement in all 50 states.

    Much more important to the stock 3S-GTE than a less restrictive air intake is a less restrictive exhaust. The most restrictive portion of the stock exhaust is the b-pipe between the downpipe and muffler. This pipe contains a small catalytic converter so it is not legal to upgrade it in some states even though the primary catalytic converter in the downpipe cleans the exhaust enough to meet the emission requirements. There are many aftermarket exhausts that replace the stock muffler and b-pipe. Choose one constructed with 2.5" or 2.75" mandrel-bent pipes. Any of these will yield an extra 10rwhp. If you are fortunate to live in a location without emission restrictions or to afford an additional exhaust system to put on just for off-road use, replacing the stock downpipe with a 2.5" downpipe will gain you another 5rwhp. At this point, you should be able to net around 220rwhp at the dyno.

    To set a good foundation of reliability for the next stages, it is prudent to make the next modification to your 3S-GTE one that prevents detonation. A good aftermarket side-mounted intercooler will add another 5rwhp to your setup. The larger intercooler will make power in two ways. First, it will cool the air charge more than the stock unit. Second, there is less of a pressure drop across the larger intercooler core than there is across the stock unit, so the turbo has less work to do to reach the desired boost pressure. This means that cooler air will reach the manifold and produce more power at the wheels. Now that you have more cooling on your side, add another pound of boost to take you up to 16psi and get you another 5rwhp. If you have made all the modifications mentioned so far, you should be making 230rwhp.

    The next modification is a tricky one that requires the use of a dyno and a wideband O2 (oxygen) sensor to do properly. The stock ECU (Electronic Control Unit--the computer that controls the engine) is programmed to dump a lot of extra fuel after the boost pressure reaches 12psi to keep the engine safe from detonation. This extra fuel, however, reduces power by lowering combustion temperatures that we can reclaim by "leaning" the air-fuel mixture so that there is a little less fuel and a little more air than the ECU is programmed to deliver. The "best" air-fuel ratio (AFR) to run the 3S-GTE at on pump gas is around 11.5:1. The least expensive way to lean the AFR safely is to get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, an inexpensive fuel pressure gauge and a fuel computer such as the S-AFC. Some performance shops will tell you that you only need an S-AFC, but the safest combination is to use all three. Install both the fuel pressure regulator and the S-AFC. Set the S-AFC to zero adjustment across the board and adjust the base fuel pressure to 35psi (base fuel pressure is the pressure when the fuel pump is running but the engine is not). Take the car to a dyno and hook a wideband O2 meter to it. Readjust the base fuel pressure to 30psi and add about 10% fuel at every point in the RPM range. Do a run on the dyno and print out the AFR chart. It should start at around 14.5:1 and quickly drop to near 10.0:1 or even lower. Use the S-AFC to take out a little fuel in the ranges above 3500 RPMs where the AFR is under 11.5:1 but don't go under the stock (0%) level. When you (or the tuner) is finished, you should be at or close to 11.5:0 AFR under high boost and you should have picked up another 10-15rwhp to get you in the 240-245rwhp range. This is 300 HP at the flywheel, which is 50% more power than you get out of the stock 3S-GTE. Not bad for a $1000-$2000 dollar total investment so far.

    Just as a side note: The amounts are in US dollars, and it is referring to the US-Spec Gen II 3S-GTE, which has 2 catalytic converters and ECU map for US Spec 91-93 PULP. Standard output for the US-Spec 3S-GTE is 200bhp.

    Oh and fyi: 170rwhp = 125rwkw, 210rwhp = 156rwkw, 245rwhp = 182rwkw, 300rwhp = 220rwkw.


  8. _omg you're comparing the best SR20 ever produced, one which is almost non-existent outside of Japan, to my 1989 3S-GTE . Let's talk about the 370cc ones. If you're going to talk 480cc, talk to mister_two and his (8-year-old) 96 MR2 GTS with 550cc injectors stock. That should be better.

    Otherwise if you're going to compare the SR20VET to my 3S-GTE then OKAY you win!  grrrrr lol

  9. You've got the advantage with the lower drivetrain losses so it should be a bit of fun. Only problem I can forsee is iirc that the MR2's don't have a 1:1 gear, is this right?

    I think 4th is pretty close to 1:1. And yes, the drivetrain losses are around the 19% (on the standard car). The problem is they need a decent fan to cool both the radiator at the front and the intercooler on the side :) ... but I suppose with the cryo kit I could just spray it cool.

    come to think of it the cryo2 would probably work against the dyno, seeing it can make the intercooler >100% efficient but doesn't change the inlet temperature where they put their inlet sensor lol! the weather station on a hot day would key in a wild correction factor and - presto - 200rwkw on a 34 degree day lol!

  10. Thanks for that mister_two.

    Also, Loco180 brings up good points. I wouldn't say the SR20 has any really big weaknesses, tho  I was just battling with _omg lol. All in all, both are excellent motors. We're just knit-picking at the moment lol.

    I'm still waiting for a Rexie owner to read _omg's comments and start up a flame war lol!

    It's all good!

  11. Umm, last dyno day we had an S15 with stock exhaust, running 12psi putting 147 down. Seriously, you might want to readjust your value concepts as this is a 0$ spend on an s15. Hate to tell you this but spend the money that you've spent on the MR2 and an S15 would make more power.

    Ummm... last time I checked, 147rwkw is LESS than 156 dude  almost 10kw less. A standard SR20DET with no variable-valve timing, stock, should be getting anywhere between 90-110rwkw. A stock 3S-GTE should be getting around 115-125rwkw. stock.

    Now. Boost'em up.

    A CT26 can be boosted up to 16psi safely in completely stock form. My run at 156rwkw was at 14psi. Thus, we see that YES the MR2 DOES make more power. Love to tell you this, but the S15 wouldn't make more power. FCD to raise boost-cut to 17psi. MBC to raise boost pressure to 16psi. That should give you a rwkw figure in the mid 160's... but even before that, you'd think those little 370cc injectors of yours would be, well, maxed out .

    I don't think boosting a stock SR20 to 16psi is very healthy, dude. But on the MR2, it's fine. Might need to look into bigger injectors on the SR to keep up. O-oh... more $$$  S-AFC to control them? Perhaps aftermarket ECU eh? hmmm... aah well.


  12. Taken from http://www.nissaninfiniticlub.net/forums/s...?threadid=26840

    The SR20VET began production in March of '99. It is still in production, however only around 300 are made each year. Stock output is actually 276HP@6800RPM, 255ft-lbs @4600RPMs.


    The problem with tuning the VET is engine management & drivetrain. A Haltec E11 should work. The VET, unlike the VE, actually adjusts valve lift, timing, and ignition time based not only on throttle position and rpm, but also upon load. To accomplish this sensors in the tranny relay inertial load data to the ECU.


    Can the swap be done..OF COURSE! However, you would have to figure out how the sensors (3 of them I believe, but don't know) measure and relay load so you could mount them in the Transaxle. Then you would have to compensate for the differences in the drivetrain (the X-Trail uses an A4WD longitudinal).


    The VET also uses an ECU controlled boost setup which varies the boost along with all the other NeoVVL stuff.


    VETs go for around $8,000 to $10,000 here in the states, and to get it you would have to leave a hefty deposit with a trading company/importer and be willing to wait a few months.


    It's probably about a $15k swap. If you do decide to go for it. You have my help...I've often contemplated it myself. Especially the day I stood looking at one in my shop listening to a good tuner *ing about how complicated the damned thing was.


  13. So, you're making about the same power as an SR20VET completely stonemotherless stock running 9psi, yep, we're laughing baby.

    Hahaahahahaha.a..... oh dear.  Yes, we're laughing. I don't understand what the stock power of an SR20VET (~240hp at engine... stock) has to do with my 1989 3S-GTE (~220hp at engine... stock) with FCD and MBC producing 156rwkw??? Firstly my 3S is producing MORE power, as the SR20VET would be lucky to put down 140rwkw stock, and secondly if you'd compare a 3S of roughly the same vintage or a 3S-GTE with VVTi BEAMS (280ps... stock), you'd see around 180rwkw after the same mods as my car... Hahahahahah.... yep .

    Now as far as bang for buck goes. If all you spend is on FCD and MBC... the 3S will win. So, perhaps you'd better re-evaluate your 'sr20 best bang for buck' theory. It sure is good value... but not in all situations, and certainly not stock for stock or with a slight boost increase.

  14. "Intercooler woes, no not really solved in the mr2...."

    Go water to air, IMO it's the only sensible choice on the MR2. These can be very very efficient if done well (also quite cheap)

    Yeah... well... naah... The cryo2 thing is only a few hundred bucks... and on really hot days I should be able to hold the spray button down for 5 seconds and freeze the innards off the intercooler (lol there goes $2 bucks worth of co2) and blow the begesus off the other turbo cars which should have retarded the timing due to the unfavourable inlet temps. WRXs with top-mounts especially :)

    "but my hp goal is probably one of the most modest on this board :)"

    Yeah, well, you can only do so much with what you're working with ;)

    Oohhh!!!   Grrr! ...... That was good.

    It's probably the mechanics around the twin scroll entry but seriously those things are freakin huge (yes, I do have one kicking about). Have you put an S15 T28 and the CT26 next to each other, you'll see what I mean.

    U sure its off an mr2/celica. The ct26 off a supra is different. those things are bigger and can make 300rwhp as their exhaust housing and internals are much larger. The ct26 off an sw20 / st205 is pretty small i reckon :).

    "The SR does this using an inlet swirl which gives good torque but is susceptible to pinging moreso than in a 3S."

    Pffftt, it's only susceptable to pinging if your tuner is a muppet. This is probably important for the americans who's idea of tuning is to buy a bigger MAF with their bigger injectors but you're in aus, anyone worth their salt can tune this properly.

    But it allows me to run 1.1 bar with stock ECU and put down almost 160rwkw... stock exhaust, stock intercooler, stock stock stock STOCK! lol! i like my FCD and pneumatic booster switch.

    "old (which its about as old as the SR)"

    Nah, not even close, I had my first 3S in '85, SR didn't turn up for a good 6 years after that. I reckon your old age is clouding your memory ;)

    Hmmm.... yes, they're old. Crazy. You'd think 6 years later they would have come up with something way better lol!

    "oh and also, the 3S is a non-interference design, meaning if the timing belt were to snap... nothing else brakes! But on the SR.... bye bye motor"

    You "hope" nothing else breaks you mean. Thats why the SR uses a chain, belts have a habit of breaking, chains are made of rather sterner stuff.

    As Confusion said, the valves on the SR dont touch the piston even if they are all the way down... as with the 3S. So, there you go.

    Lets just hope the shock of being in front of an SR wouldn't give it a heart attack.

    Never did. Never will.  Although its quite funny as most mr2s goin around are non-turbo and the turbo crowd usually take 1st gear easy thinking they can pass super-hard in 2nd like they did to those N/A mr2s so many times before in the years gone by. Then they realise... they can't . THAT is usually a shock to them lol.

    WRX's are understeering laggy pieces of crap which are testement to the fact that most people can't drive to sdave their lives but will spend all manner of money in an effort to convince themselves the  opposite (yeah, nothing whatsoever to do with anything said in this thread but if I'm going to insult people I might as well chuck one the WRX's way as well.)

    smiley32.gif lol... I luv it.

    Oooh... if a WRX owner reads this. It's ON baby!


  15. well... no :)

    yes i went a bit overboard with my post... as have you lol.

    your counter-points invalidate some of my points and i can see where i have gone wrong... but you've also construed a heap of misinformation in your retalitory message. Let me digress:

    Firstly, on the point of alloy, the cast iron will not warp as the aluminium would, requiring sleeves at higher horsepower. the cast iron block, no.

    Intercooler woes, no not really solved in the mr2 however I'm grabbing a cryo2 kit and we'll see what happens. not a big fan of the trunk mount intercooler with spal fans, but my hp goal is probably one of the most modest on this board :)

    you're right... the 3s-gte isn't the motor of choice. i dont know where i pulled that out of... perhaps my a$$... lol. my head was still in jtcc --- which will hopefully explain my momentary lapse. albeit the sr20 isn't in production anymore. the 3s is, so at the moment if anything it is the evo motor that is the motor of choice at the moment.

    now as far as breaking an engine goes...... i said it did break at 550 after months of thrashing and bearing in mind its stock and had done 150,000 miles. a motor that is fresher and slightly detuned to say 500rwhp only, and daily driven without masochistic mechanically merciless shifting on a daily basis... should be, for lack of a better word, reliable.

    as for spooling-up, the stock ct26 is pretty darn small, dude. lol!!! big-turbine? lol no. the stock ct26 is small, runs out of breath at 5500rpm. heck even high-flowed ct26s can't even do over 275rwhp or so. the next step up is to get a ct20b turbo which looks like a ct26, is even DESIGNATED as a ct26 but with different internals. this can boost up hard and without high-flowing can get to 300rwhp.

    now, laggy as? hmmm.......... nope. the ct26 is TWIN-SCROLL. What does that mean? Well it stops exhaust gasses from one chamber flowing back into another chamber, aiding combustion. This also aids extraction from the manifold and aids spool-up. Also, the TVIS on the 3S-GTE is a lo/hi mode for aiding exhaust gas accelleration. What does that mean? Great power all throughout the rev range.

    The SR does this using an inlet swirl which gives good torque but is susceptible to pinging moreso than in a 3S. I prefer the TVIS / twin-scroll method of low-down torque, as opposed to inlet swirls :)

    So the 3S is big (even though yuo said its the same size), old (which its about as old as the SR) and low-tech (which seems to have more technology than the SR lol) ---- oh and also, the 3S is a non-interference design, meaning if the timing belt were to snap... nothing else brakes! But on the SR.... bye bye motor :)

    So, the 3S has it pretty much all over the SR... except for aftermarket, which is a BIG exception. Support for a motor is just as important, if not more important than the design of the motor itself.

    And with the LSD/midship of the MR2.... and the AWD of the GT4... erm.... by the time the SR has gotten traction in an S-chassis, the other 2 have, almost as you put it lol, gripped and f**ked off!!! :)