[SXWPN]

This is for EPA laws in reguards to aftermarket mods. EPA doesnt care about ride height or chassis, they care about NOISE and EMISSIONS.
Which means aftermarket bovs, ecu's, fmics, nos, exhaust db ect.
If you want one of these mad suckers, WRITE to the dude at the end of it. He will answer your questions and you will have a hard copy to show your family and friends how cool you are. Also helps with less-knowledgeable Police.
Make sure you ask SPECIFICALLY what you want to know, cos the guy is a tightass and only replies back to you once.
EPA data.


This here is the VICROADS link. Usefull if you want to learn junk:
VICROADS WEBSAAAAT

Vehicle stadards, which means if u mod seatbelts, laws about anything structural and general. NB: Modification guide is in that list.
VEHICLES STANDARDS

Mod guide. Your complete list of legal general-non technical mods you can do to your car WITHOUT the need to get it engineered.
NB: If your mods dont meet the below link requirements, you are required to get your mods ENGINEERED by an VASS recognised Engineer.
Most can be found by ringing Vicroads:
VICROADS modification guide.

Road safety Act. All your road safety acts. The 2nd link is more usefull:
Road safety act.
VIC Safety Act Part II

Thanx to Jonty for these

enjoy...

[smokey]

Howdy folks,
Over the last few days, I have received a number of PM's asking for legal advice (I've been charged with this, what should I do?) and also asking me what likely penalties are going to be given at court.

First of all, let me make this perfectly clear. I will not be giving any legal advice, in any way, shape or form, to any user regardless of how nicely you ask me. To start with, it's not my job to advise people in legal matters where they have been charged, or may be charged.

Secondly, it is a MAJOR conflict of interest, and could see me lose my job.

So, to recap...it aint going to happen!

On the subject of likely penalties imposed by courts, I'm afraid I can't comment. Police have no part in the decision making process when it comes to deciding appropriate penalties (apart from advising the Magistrate in relation to legislated minimum penalties).

In reality, if police prove their case, then the penalties can range anywhere from a warning, community service, a suspended sentence, licence suspension or cancellation or ultimately, imprisonment for the more serious offences, or habitual repeat offenders. There is absolutely no rule when it comes to sentencing...the decision is made by the Magistrate on the day. So for those of you who ask "I'm going to court for this...what will happen? How long will I lose my licence for?"...I can't answer that.

Sorry to disappoint.

[Haddan_180sx]

thats cool, and for the people who dont know... ie me, are u a cop? if not why they comin to u for legal advice?

[YogiR33]

But can you advise us on basic road rules stuff.
Eg Laser
- do they hav to show you a readin wen you ask
- do they hav to hav direct line of sight wit the car(not thru a window/windscreen)
- do they hav to issue the ticket on the spot or mail it in

Wat is the rule on ride height ?
- lowest point has to be minimum 100mm or has to be greater than 100mm ??

Suspension
- are coilover illegal, wat if they conform to the 1/3 suspension travel rule

Wheels
- wat is considered illegal if i hav 16 x 7 can i get
- 16 x 8
- 17 x 7
- 17 x 8
- 17 x 9
- 18 x 8
- 18 x 9

Im guessin these sorta questions r ok ?? If not let us know wat is considered taboo

[ZEUS]

I also like to know why have people been asking you for legal adivce?


-ZEUS-

[aka-|.w.P.a|]

coz his a cop..........

[smokey]

^^^wot he said^^^

YogiR33 said:

But can you advise us on basic road rules stuff.

Absolutely.

Quote

Eg Laser
- do they hav to show you a readin wen you ask

Nope. But generally, if you ask then you will be shown. Some members make a habit of offering the driver the chance to inspect the reading.

Quote

- do they hav to hav direct line of sight wit the car(not thru a window/windscreen)

The target vehicle must be within the member's "field of vision". IE: I can't bounce the RADAR off the rear vision mirror to check your speed, I have to physically turn and face you. There is no problem with using these devices through windows (in fact, some units have started mounting their Moving Mode RADAR antennas on the dash next to the off-side A pillar!

Quote

- do they hav to issue the ticket on the spot or mail it in

Generally, it is usually issued on the spot, but mail is also an option.

Quote

Wat is the rule on ride height ?
- lowest point has to be minimum 100mm or has to be greater than 100mm ??

"Road clearance - not to be less than 100mm" This measurement is taken in the state the vehicle is found. IE: If you are moving house and have your car loaded with all your stereo equipment, or you have four of your mates in the car who pump weights (or are on the juice! ) then they (and you) remain in the car whilst the height is checked.

Quote

Suspension
- are coilover illegal, wat if they conform to the 1/3 suspension travel rule

I'm not sure on this one. I'll have to make some inquiries.

Quote

Wheels
- wat is considered illegal if i hav 16 x 7 can i get
- 16 x 8
- 17 x 7
- 17 x 8

Yes to the above.

Quote

- 17 x 9
- 18 x 8
- 18 x 9

No to the above.

Quote

Im guessin these sorta questions r ok ??

Fine by me.

[MidnightMods]

sorry to bust ya balls again. can a gun take a pic of my speed, u say print out but if thay dont stop me is there any way i can get a fine in the mail or somethign like that?

also i was always told thay must show proof of the speed u were doing to fine u. e.g a print out, so a cop can say u were doing 150 in a 60zone with out proof?

[YogiR33]

Quote

Quote

Eg Laser
- do they hav to show you a readin wen you ask

Nope. But generally, if you ask then you will be shown. Some members make a habit of offering the driver the chance to inspect the reading.

Im pretty sure that answers your question. Regardless of the speed, if the Officer says he got you on the laser doing 150 then that is good enough. He may or may not choose to show you. I know for a fact that they dont hav to because my cousin got done doin 90 in a 60 zone and wen he asked to see the readout, the officer declined. Its the law im afraid.

So heres a scenario, one i dont recommend you do.
You are hoonin along some country highway, up ahead you see the all too familiar 'red dot' the tell tales signs of a laser on you. Now the speed limit is 100 and u decide to enjoy it at 130. You hoon past, hopin he didnt spot u and keep goin. Now the officer has 2 options(using the info Smokey jus gave as reference) :
1. He chases you, pulls you over and says "mate u were doin 130 in 100 zone thats $265, 4 demerit points and 1 month suspension" NOW he MAY or MAY NOT show you the reading if u ask

2. He jus takes down your number plates and sends the fine via mail, although i doubt he wouldnt chase as he would be open to too many variables to hav the fine dismissed in court.

Anyway bottom line tickets can be issued on the spot or in the mail. Laser readin can or cannot be shown upon request.

As for a print out, the only cameras that give a print out is the ones operated by Civic Compliance Victoria and u actually hav to go into their office pay $40 to ask to see your pic using the Obligation number u were given on the fine.

Hope that helps Spandex

And to all others that r asking Smokey is a T.M.U. officer who has been kind enuff to lend a hand and jus put his own input into topics on this forum.

[gooch]

just so you know, with lasers, its almost impossible to fight it in court

i heard this straight from my lawyer

[YogiR33]

Otay now this is the placard on the side of my car



Does that mean that if stock my car can take 17 x 9.5 that legally i can go upto a 18 x 10.5 ????

[YogiR33]

Well i think the only thing u can get away with is when was the last time the laser was serviced, if the laser's last service was more than 6months then it can be deemed inaccurate.

But then theres VicRoads policy on Roadworthy and speedo's. Apparently if your car is deemed roadworthy then the speedo can hav a leway of 10% of the speed shown. Eg if the car shows 60 then u hav a domain of 54 - 66. So if u get done on the laser/camera for 63/64 i think you r within reason to dispute.

Obviously if u get caught doin 68 and after the 2km leway is taken into account your ticket shows 66 u got little chance of disputin it.

[Black200]

YogiR33, on Feb 1 2005, 03:42 PM, said:

Obviously if u get caught doin 68 and after the 2km leway is taken into account your ticket shows 66 u got little chance of disputin it.

You'd have the same chance as if it was 63/64. If they get you as doing 68 and they take off the 2km leeway, that means you were doing 66 which is within the 10% allowed by ADR's etc.

However, thanks to Mr Bracks that doesn't matter any more. If you're more than 3k's over you are 'braking the law', end of discussion.

Robert Doyle tried to argue against that at the last election but most people thought he was saying it was ok to speed. They didn't realise that it meant that the speedo on their brand new commodore could read 60km/hr, but they could be doing 66km/hr and be fined because of Bracks.

[YogiR33]

Bring back Jeff is all i hav to say !

[mikymouse]

Right on! Brack's hasn't done anything good for Victoria.

[smokey]

spandex said:

can a gun take a pic of my speed, u say print out but if thay dont stop me is there any way i can get a fine in the mail or somethign like that?

also i was always told thay must show proof of the speed u were doing to fine u. e.g a print out, so a cop can say u were doing 150 in a 60zone with out proof?

The speed measuring devices used by police do not take pictures. Nor do they print out a certificate as proof of the speed. All they do is show the speed of the vehicle on a visual display.

You do NOT have to be intercepted at the time. The reason we do intercept whenever possible is to interview the offending driver and to confirm identity of the driver to satisfy any prosecution. If the driver is not intercepted at the time, then we have to contact the owner and demand they identify the driver at the time of the offence. If they fail to do this, then they themselves are committing an offence as well!

Even if a driver is intercepted, they do not have to be issued with a Penalty Notice at the time. The officer may choose, instead, to post it to them.

As for showing you "proof" of the speed you were detected at, you can certainly ask to inspect the reading on the device, but it does NOT have to be shown to you. (Although, in almost every circumstance, if you ask it will be readily shown to you)

Now, on the matter of identity of the driver, some of you may then consider NOT stopping for police and claiming that someone else was driving. So I'll suggest this to you.

In almost every situation that you will be intercepted, it will be for a "summary offence". That is, a relatively minor offence which can be dealt with by way of Penalty Notice, or summons to appear in a Magistrates' Court. You do not have to appear at court for these charges to be heard (but it is a good idea).

Now, if you choose not to stop for police, and they initiate a pursuit, you suddenly graduate from summary offences to indictable offences. These offences are much more serious, and require that you be arrested and interviewed on audio tape. You will then be released and charged by way of summons, or possibly be placed on bail. In some circumstances, police may make an application for you to be remanded in custody!

This now leads me onto the matter of pursuits. I have heard over the last few months several people say that police have to stop a pursuit if the speed gets above 120, or 150, or even 200. I can categorically deny any such law or regulation.

gooch said:

just so you know, with lasers, its almost impossible to fight it in court

The Courts have long recognised the LASER as an extremely accurate and precise way of measuring speed.

Yogi said:

Does that mean that if stock my car can take 17 x 9.5 that legally i can go upto a 18 x 10.5 ????

My understanding is you can alter your wheels and tyres each by +/- 1 inch, meaning a total maximum increase (or decrease) of 2 inches for the combination.

Yogi said:

Well i think the only thing u can get away with is when was the last time the laser was serviced, if the laser's last service was more than 6months then it can be deemed inaccurate.

You've got more of a chance of proving who shot JFK! All our devices are calibrated every 12 months, as required by legislation. We prove this by producing a Certificate Of Calibration to the court as evidence.

Yogi said:

But then theres VicRoads policy on Roadworthy and speedo's. Apparently if your car is deemed roadworthy then the speedo can hav a leway of 10% of the speed shown. Eg if the car shows 60 then u hav a domain of 54 - 66. So if u get done on the laser/camera for 63/64 i think you r within reason to dispute.

Ah yes, let's discuss the ADR's.

Australian Design Rules require that a speedometer is accurate to within +/- 10% of the actual speed. Meaning, if you are travelling at 100 Km/h, then your speedo can display anywhere between 90 and 110 and still comply with the ADR's. Yet we all know that the Safety Cameras are set to trigger at 107!

This is easily explained. Road Rule 20 (speed limits) is something called an "absolute offence". Meaning, the speed you were detected travelling at is the actual speed you were doing, regardless of any discrepancies in your speedo. So the ADR's are totally irrelevant when trying to defend a speeding charge.

Whilst I'm on the subject of speedo's. How many of you can honestly say you have had your speedo's calibrated? If you haven't, how do you know they are accurate? Every police vehicle has a calibrated speedo fitted (which is how we can follow you and say "You were doing this speed"). Some of you may have checked the accuracy of your speedo against those speed check signs that get around the state from time to time. Whilst they appear to give you an idea of your speed, I personally wouldn't rely on them as they are not speed measuring devices for the purposes of the Road Rules, and are therefore not required (as far as I am aware) to be calibrated.

[GoJiRa]

YogiR33, on Feb 1 2005, 10:38 AM, said:

Otay now this is the placard on the side of my car



Does that mean that if stock my car can take 17 x 9.5 that legally i can go upto a 18 x 10.5 ????

http://www.vicroads....afe/vsi%208.pdf

Now according to VicRoads Section 8 (ironic hehe) the width may only be increased by 25mm (1-inch) from the widest wheel and not narrower than the narrowest wheel specified for the model. So yes 10.5" is fine by that (discounting the issue that 1-inch is actually 25.4mm soo ummmm yeah)

The total wheel and tyre diameter is not to be 15mm larger or smaller than the largest/smallest tyre specified. So really the only thing you have to worry about it the tyres... The wheels are free so you can have 22x10.5s as long as you get the right tyres for it.

I suggest everyone print out and get to know VicRoads Section 8 very well http://www.vicroads....afe/vsi%208.pdf

[MAFIOSO]

smokey i am very curious about the max speed a pursuit car is allowed to go during a chase...
i have heard 140, 160, and 180, i personally dont think a chase car would go above 200?

does it happen?


got any stories to share with us about chases? ofcourse without naming names..

[GoJiRa]

A friend of mine was allegedly persued by a police car at over 220km/h...

They have LS1 powered SS Commodores which can probably still do around 240km/h. So if conditions allowed I think that would be the only limiting factor. As smokey said above there is no rule that has to be followed.

[MAFIOSO]

yeh, id just like to hear smokeys professional answer,

but in my opinion a cop car on ur ass at 220 would be alot more of a hazard considering the chased car would be paranoid about being caught, and would push it even harder and take more risks, i think the safer thing to do would be to hang back, give them some space so they dont do dumb things, and then set up road blocks further down and possibly spike strips

*thinks of the dumb ass in the wrx in sydney that was on the news*

[GoJiRa]

Nah a much better way is to have a VL Commodore beside you and let him get caught while you run off into the distance

[Houghy]

smokey, on Feb 1 2005, 12:34 AM, said:

Quote

Eg Laser
- do they hav to show you a readin wen you ask

Nope. But generally, if you ask then you will be shown. Some members make a habit of offering the driver the chance to inspect the reading.

ive been told my several cops that they do infact have to prove you were speeding when caught on radar to prove to the offender and show there's no bias. do you know 100% or are u assuming?

[smokey]

Houghy, on Feb 1 2005, 07:16 PM, said:

ive been told my several cops that they do infact have to prove you were speeding when caught on radar to prove to the offender and show there's no bias. do you not 100% or are u assuming?

Nope...I'm 100% certain. But thanks for checking anyway.

On the matter of pursuits:

I have personally only been involved in 4 pursuits in my time, all of which were relatively low speed (although one of them got up to 120 in a 60 zone). None of them were terminated. They were allowed to run their full course and end with the motorist being intercepted and charged.

Having said that, I have also followed, on 2 separate occasions, vehicles in excess of 200 Km/h. They were NOT pursuits, as both motorists pulled over as soon as they realised it was a police car behind them!

Once again, there is NO set speed that pursuits will be terminated. But as MAFIOSO rightly points out, there are a number of pursuit resolution strategies at our disposal ie: road blocks, Air Wing etc etc.

[pokiou]

THIS IS TO MUCH TO TAKE IN !!


ok lets make this a sticky as all the information is darn usefull
atm i hav 17" by 7" is taht alright ?


Pok.

[white-s13]

pok... ur sig has no relevance now... i don't have a fast car

[MAFIOSO]

smokey, on Feb 1 2005, 09:27 AM, said:

They were allowed to run their full course and end with the motorist being intercepted and charged.

by that do you mean run out of fuel?

[pinoi_boi_r33]

ok this may be more for the epa guys but i'll try any way.

for efi turbo cars 1 induction mod is allowed, either the intercooler or airfilter.

So what i ask is:

my car comes with a side mount intercooler stock so i change it to a front mount intercooler I retain the standard air box but put a paper (non wet) higher flowing filter inside, ie apexi (k&n not allowed as they are oiled) is this allowed?

similarly am i allowed to have a pod filter that is fully enclosed in an aftermarket box, with the front mount?

i guess if i put an apexi flat filament in the stock box this still counts as a modification but does this mean i need a genuine nissan airfilter?

and the second question is probably not allowed at all but forgive me for dreaming.

also u said the cop defecting for ride height does so as it is found on the street. What if i get done and i have to take it to vicroads with the wrc, can the ppl at vicroads get people to sit in it to re-measure height?

cheers

[white-s13]

smokey would you expect to charge someone for ride height? as in no fine or defect, but actually charge and summon them to court?

[YogiR33]

This is a dam good thread, so ppl pls be considerate and any abusive/irrelevant posts will be deleted and the user warned. Thank you.

As for your question Pok u will hav to check out your tyre placard and is wat is says and go from there. Well im happy that means legally i can get 18 x 8 and 18 x 9 giddy up !

[gooch]

white-s13, on Feb 1 2005, 10:34 PM, said:

smokey would you expect to charge someone for ride height? as in no fine or defect, but actually charge and summon them to court?

dave a fine is essentially a charge and by paying it you are admitting guilt

but instead of giving you that option, a certain officer has decided that you wont have the option of admitting guilt and paying the fine, you will have to put your case in front of a magistrate and then you can either plead guilty, or risk getting a conviction, which is what he wants